So..1 story coming out of this synthesis here is that those of us who have given up on rationality being The Way at age 28 have ~12 years ahead of us stuck in the wilderness before we can be...whatever the fuck 5 is :P (Or we're v, v wrong about our relationship to rationality)
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Replying to @utotranslucence @Meaningness and
I mean, and/or the Kegan stages are a partial model anyways, and we can play at being at different levels...
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Replying to @utotranslucence @AtaraxJim and
Yes, fwiw I think they can be brilliantly illuminating in some cases, but don’t seem to fit some people’s experience at all, and in any case shouldn’t be concretized.https://youtu.be/m3dZl3yfGpc
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Replying to @Meaningness @AtaraxJim and
I haven't listen to the podcast yet, I'll admit--do you know what the biggest reason Kegan gives for no 5's younger than 40? (I.e. what does his theory say, not just 'we didn't find any')
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Replying to @utotranslucence @AtaraxJim and
Afaik there’s no mechanism story; the claim is purely empirical. My mechism story is that you have to have spent enough years in stage 4 to have a felt sense of the patterns in both its working well and in its failing. (Intellectual understanding that it sometimes does fail is >
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Replying to @Meaningness @utotranslucence and
> helpful but not nearly sufficient.) It takes several years to accumulate that experience after you’ve already mastered stage 4 (so it usually does work), and usually you don’t master 4 until mid-20s
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Replying to @Meaningness @utotranslucence and
And once you realize 4 can’t be made to work as advertised, you are only at 4.5 which can be several years of hell (although this seems not everyone’s experience) before you get to operate at 5 reasonably reliably, because you need to learn the 5ish skills and there’s no guide
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Replying to @Meaningness @utotranslucence and
David, when do you think you achieved stage 5?
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Replying to @MimeticValue @utotranslucence and
I am not qualified to categorize anyone, least of all myself!
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Replying to @Meaningness @MimeticValue and
Is there a Cosmo-style (Buzzfeed for the young'ins) quiz on this stuff?
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Not afaik… I’ve thought about making one, but am extravagantly unqualified, and also have 18,537 other unfinished projects
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