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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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      🎙 Robert Kegan explaining his adult developmental theory, with @dthorson “If you want to be Stage 5 because all the cool kids are, that’s a Stage 3 aspiration. If you want it because Stage 5 is the Correct way of thinking, that’s a Stage 4 aspiration.”https://anchor.fm/emerge/episodes/Robert-Kegan---The-Five-Stages-of-Adult-Development-And-Why-You-Probably-Arent-Stage-5-eb8gug …

      11 replies 22 retweets 203 likes
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    2. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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      Daniel asked Kegan about his claim that no one reaches Stage 5 before age 40. Kegan said that’s what’s in the data from their measurement process: zero cases. This is somewhat puzzling…

      2 replies 0 retweets 23 likes
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    3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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      Other researchers using similar but not identical measures find “meta-systematic cognition,” seemingly analogous to Kegan’s Stage 5 thinking, starting for some in late 20s (partial intellectual understanding of it sometimes starting early 20s). Informally I think I see this too.

      1 reply 0 retweets 23 likes
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    4. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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      The stuff I write about meta-rationality seems to appeal most to people who are ~28: having worked through the limits of rationalism, with the more complex alternative coming into view on the horizon.

      2 replies 0 retweets 36 likes
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    5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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      Why this discrepancy? I can think of quite a few possibilities. However, it’s hard to know, because: As far as I can determine, Kegan and his collaborators have never published their empirical work, much less made data available.

      2 replies 0 retweets 24 likes
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      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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      Their citation chains always eventually root in their SOI Guide, which just has some summary statistics in an appendix. This is a self-published book. Nothing has been peer reviewed. It was written in 1988, and kept private until self-publication in 2011 https://www.amazon.com/dp/1461128803/?tag=meaningness-20 …

      1:40 PM - 10 Mar 2020
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      3 replies 0 retweets 19 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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          Possible there’s been no serious data collection since the mid-80s, and Kegan’s “not before 40” assertion rests on that single old study. Results might be different 35 years later. Also I see meta-rationality showing up at ~28 in STEM geeks, who were not in his sample afaik.

          3 replies 0 retweets 27 likes
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        3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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          Alternatively, it’s plausible that Kegan &co’s instrument measures something different than other developmental theorists’. They emphasize emotional and relational complexity, where others emphasize reasoning complexity, although both include both and see them as linked.

          2 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
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        4. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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          It’s a common observation that STEM geeks develop cognitive skills fast and lag in emotional & relational skills. Developing in different domains at different rates is called “décallage” (lag) in the literature. Kegan seems less willing to acknowledge décallage than some others.

          6 replies 2 retweets 26 likes
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        5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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          Maybe you really can’t be emotionally and relationally meta-systematic before age 40, although you can develop meta-rationality over a few years starting mid/late 20s. (Research suggests developing cognitive meta-systematicity (= meta-rationality) takes 6-10 years to complete.)

          6 replies 0 retweets 23 likes
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        6. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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          Understanding how adults continue to develop new, deeper, more powerful cognitive skills, through their 30s at minimum, seems enormously important. Research on this is scarce, and—to be blunt—much of it is low-quality. I’d love for this to change. Big opportunity!

          1 reply 2 retweets 59 likes
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        7. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. 𝐀𝐧𝐝𝐫𝐞𝐰 𝐖𝐞𝐭𝐳𝐞𝐥‏ @CircleReader Mar 10
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          Replying to @Meaningness

          *sigh* But they've published several business management books, and I assume have a consulting practice.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Mar 10
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          Replying to @CircleReader

          Yes. I’m pretty annoyed by this, as you can tell :) Although I think the business books may have great value, and they may have concluded correctly that they can be more useful by doing that than by sciencing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Simon Grant‏ @asimong Mar 12
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          Replying to @Meaningness

          I'd like to know of any other material on the SOI practice. Could we perhaps post-modernistically deconstruct and then reconstruct something that we can fluidly share?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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