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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      This is not “the correct definition”; it’s a local definition that has a specific purpose, which is to make that three-way contrast. The value of doing so is in pointing out that standard theories of rationality usually overlook reasonableness and meta-rationality.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      Making that distinction opens up the possibility of investigating and better understanding reasonableness and meta-rationality, both of which (I suggest) are necessary in order to make “rationality” in the narrow sense work. https://meaningness.com/eggplant/cognitive-science …pic.twitter.com/NsMxGOAN2w

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      “Meta-rationality” means figuring out how to apply technical rationality in a specific circumstance. Anyone who ever applies technical rationality in the real world necessarily also does meta-rationality—you have to choose how to set up the formalism.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    4. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      David Chapman Retweeted David Chapman

      So this isn’t alien or special; it’s just overlooked, and therefore usually done using some tacit default, which is often not very good. Example here:https://twitter.com/Meaningness/status/1226951329743949824 …

      David Chapman added,

      David Chapman @Meaningness
      In decision theory, you have to choose something to maximize (“utility”). That is a meta-rational consideration, which is not taught, and for which there can be no rational procedure. So it’s usually done implicitly, and badly. https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/01/28/cost-benefit-analysis-versus-benefit-only-analysis/ … pic.twitter.com/dMA6z85fo7
      2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      My usage of “rationality” does not coincide perfectly with that of LW. A meaningful fraction of what’s on LW is meta-rational (as I use that term). Since everyone who uses rationality also does meta-rationality, this is not surprising!

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    6. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      Re your specific questions: Actions are not rational, reasonable, or meta-rational per se; the process whereby you come to take those actions, and justify them after the fact, may be rational, reasonable, or meta-rational.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    7. Jake Orthwein‏ @JakeOrthwein Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk

      Another distinction you make in the book, relevant to our epistemic/instrumental discussion: reasonableness is purpose-laden, rationality is purpose-independent, and meta-rationality evaluates and coordinates purposes. But rationality depends upon reasonableness to function.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @JakeOrthwein @Ideopunk

      Yes, that's right, although a rationalist would probably reply that of course rationality is always applied toward some purpose, which is correct. The distinction is that the formalism per se has no specific purpose, only its use does.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @JakeOrthwein @Ideopunk

      Relevant text from the draft:pic.twitter.com/0oL5fICPmJ

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
    10. Jake Orthwein‏ @JakeOrthwein Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk

      Jake Orthwein Retweeted Jake Orthwein

      Also seems relevant to the question Conor poses about the potential use of this outlook for "deciding what our values should be." Understanding rationality's relationship to more directly meaningful activity helps ensure it doesn't tip into nihilism.https://twitter.com/JakeOrthwein/status/1226617944349691906 …

      Jake Orthwein added,

      Jake Orthwein @JakeOrthwein
      Replying to @literalbanana
      Love this bit from All Things Shining about restoring meaning through seeing what you actually already care about. pic.twitter.com/SFW2xuodgc
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @JakeOrthwein @Ideopunk

      Yes I retweeted that when you first posted it

      6:32 PM - 10 Feb 2020
      • 1 Like
      • Jake Orthwein
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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          Replying to @Meaningness @JakeOrthwein @Ideopunk

          drafty draft text (which will go near the end of the nihilism chapter, near the beginning of _Meaningness_ the book) cc @literalbananapic.twitter.com/F8vp6Y7FRr

          1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
        3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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          Replying to @Meaningness @JakeOrthwein and

          Also this… now you can see what my writing looks like before I turn it into readable text!pic.twitter.com/R5uUonSYix

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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