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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      Possibly I can help clarify here? It may be that you are somewhat talking past each other due to different uses of “rationality.”

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      In the broadest sense, it means “any way of thinking or acting that tends to work,” and definitely in that sense meta-rationality is a form of rationality (because it tends to work).

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      I am using “rationality” in a more specific sense, roughly “systematic, formal, or technical rationality.” I contrast that with two other ways of thinking and acting that are likely to work, “mere reasonableness” and “meta-rationality.”

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
    4. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      This is not “the correct definition”; it’s a local definition that has a specific purpose, which is to make that three-way contrast. The value of doing so is in pointing out that standard theories of rationality usually overlook reasonableness and meta-rationality.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      Making that distinction opens up the possibility of investigating and better understanding reasonableness and meta-rationality, both of which (I suggest) are necessary in order to make “rationality” in the narrow sense work. https://meaningness.com/eggplant/cognitive-science …pic.twitter.com/NsMxGOAN2w

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    6. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      “Meta-rationality” means figuring out how to apply technical rationality in a specific circumstance. Anyone who ever applies technical rationality in the real world necessarily also does meta-rationality—you have to choose how to set up the formalism.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    7. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      David Chapman Retweeted David Chapman

      So this isn’t alien or special; it’s just overlooked, and therefore usually done using some tacit default, which is often not very good. Example here:https://twitter.com/Meaningness/status/1226951329743949824 …

      David Chapman added,

      David Chapman @Meaningness
      In decision theory, you have to choose something to maximize (“utility”). That is a meta-rational consideration, which is not taught, and for which there can be no rational procedure. So it’s usually done implicitly, and badly. https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/01/28/cost-benefit-analysis-versus-benefit-only-analysis/ … pic.twitter.com/dMA6z85fo7
      2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    8. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      My usage of “rationality” does not coincide perfectly with that of LW. A meaningful fraction of what’s on LW is meta-rational (as I use that term). Since everyone who uses rationality also does meta-rationality, this is not surprising!

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    9. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      Re your specific questions: Actions are not rational, reasonable, or meta-rational per se; the process whereby you come to take those actions, and justify them after the fact, may be rational, reasonable, or meta-rational.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    10. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      The process leading to an action is meta-rational if it involves explicitly considering what sort of rational system to apply and how and why.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

      The “meta-rational path” (I’m not sure I’d use that phrase) would be learning to do meta-rationality well. That is, skill in considering alternative formal systems that could be brought to bear in a situation, their pluses and minuses, how they might be combined or modified, etc.

      5:33 PM - 10 Feb 2020
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      • Panthera uncia Possibly a Demo hm Rahul Ramchandani eigenrobot
      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Feb 10
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          Replying to @Meaningness @Ideopunk @JakeOrthwein

          The understanding of why meta-rationality can’t be systematic depends on an understanding of the limits of formal systems, and why those considerations don’t apply to “mere reasonableness” either. This explanation is much too long for a tweet storm. My book will cover it.

          0 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
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