Yes! There’s actually good empirical support for this (some cited in my thing)pic.twitter.com/PRzq4FsE1I
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Yes! There’s actually good empirical support for this (some cited in my thing)pic.twitter.com/PRzq4FsE1I
Ok let me finish the whole thing first
Yeah, this is an interesting discussion. I think your original point about SSC/IDW/etc may clarify something I don’t understand yet (but I’m not sure because I don’t understand it yet :)
This was a fantastic read! I'd say your analysis manages to avoid the issue I've highlighted with SCC/IDW the most of anything I've seen. There's much of the map that I'd draw differently, but it's clear that we're looking at the same thing.
Ven has gotten pretty close in the sense that I know he's looking at the same thing, but his personal disdain for the territory has made his map too stylistic for me to build on. Still get some good insights from it though.
Zanzi Retweeted Zanzi
But there is a humbleness in both that's lacking in SCC/LW/IDW. The latter attempt to draw a map that centres their own position, which turns it into a sort of solipsistic trap - they become *more* entrenched in their own position and self-righteousnesshttps://twitter.com/tangled_zans/status/1220726629795815425 …
Zanzi added,
"post-rationalism" takes care to avoid the rationalist mistake of self-centering itself on the map, but it doesn't *quite* succeed yet. perhaps it tries to be too nebulous and hard-to-define out of fear that by defining itself it will fall into the tribe-trap
but perhaps by not defining itself, it inadvertently side-steps its own criticisms by omitting itself from its own analysis. so there's still an accidental "us versus them" thing going. "them are the knightly status seekers, and us are the folks trying to stop them!" heh
so what im trying to articulate is a meta-level that treats itself on the same footing as all the other positions. so while on the object level i ie abhor IDW, my meta-analysis needs to make no judgement on which position is more correct/coherent/valid/logical/good-faith
Thinking out loud… maybe a useful framing is that everyone mixes genuine good intentions, emotional confusions, conceptual confusions, self-interested status-seeking, enjoyment of communication even with enemies, tribal loyalty, attempts to gain material advantage, &c…
If we admit that, then we can cut opponents some slack, ask that they do the same, try honestly to help them clarify their confusions, and try to work together to sort out what everyone actually wants/needs vs demands that are fake due to genuine confusion or tactical maneuvering
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