Oh, hmm, sorry, that's actually not the page I had in mind (although it's relevant). I was thinking of this one. (But it would need updating for Culture War 2.0, which I intended to do back in 2013, but didn't get to. Maybe someday!)https://meaningness.com/counterculture-war …
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Replying to @Meaningness @tangled_zans and
Particularly this bit toward the end. I suggest it would be helpful for participants to admit that there’s a mixture of substantive conflicts and symbolic ones. Substantive ones actually matter and are often amenable to pragmatic compromises or win-win strategies.pic.twitter.com/ZrOHPcYSJw
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Thank you! Both have been good reading so far. Lots of the ideas overlap with how I see things as well. The key difference that I'm articulating is that rather than rejecting both "sides" and finding a meta-description ('you're not fighting about values but status') 1/
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Replying to @tangled_zans @Meaningness and
The way forward is to instead *accept* both views as "valid in their context". youd still need to help them clarify what their *substantative* demands are, but this way you can get them to listen to you
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Replying to @tangled_zans @Meaningness and
Ie "humans are wired to fight for status" *may* be true in the strictly biological sense, but it's not the right level of abstraction to think in if you actually want to get them to change (because internally a lot of them dont see things that way)
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Replying to @tangled_zans @Meaningness and
The argument here isn't just for the sake of empathy - my stronger claim is that to understand someone well enough to change their mind you need to understand them using their own words. So any external theorizing risks diluting your understanding and is to be used sparingly
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Yes! There’s actually good empirical support for this (some cited in my thing)pic.twitter.com/PRzq4FsE1I
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Ok let me finish the whole thing first
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Yeah, this is an interesting discussion. I think your original point about SSC/IDW/etc may clarify something I don’t understand yet (but I’m not sure because I don’t understand it yet :)
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This was a fantastic read! I'd say your analysis manages to avoid the issue I've highlighted with SCC/IDW the most of anything I've seen. There's much of the map that I'd draw differently, but it's clear that we're looking at the same thing.
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Glad you like it! I’ll leave the others out of subsequent replies since @vgr at least said he wasn’t interested…
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