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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. Pasha Kamyshev‏ @PashaKamyshev Jan 4
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      Pasha Kamyshev Retweeted David Chapman

      1. Noooo! Read Girard proper, he's good an the linked piece is not. The piece gets the four stages roughly right, but spends too much time on "all desire is mimetic". It's not that all desire is mimetic, it's just that mimetic desire underlies all culture and social functions.https://twitter.com/Meaningness/status/1213547494547714048 …

      Pasha Kamyshev added,

      David Chapman @Meaningness
      I know zero about Girard. This seems like a plausible and comprehensive dismissal. Would be interested to know what counterarguments there are? https://arcade.stanford.edu/rofl/deceit-desire-and-literature-professor-why-girardians-exist …
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    2. Pasha Kamyshev‏ @PashaKamyshev Jan 4
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      2. While reading Girard, it was obvious to me that the formula wasn't desire -> violence (otherwise violence would be pervasive), but rather mimetic desire + scarcity + absence of structured justice -> violence

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    3. Pasha Kamyshev‏ @PashaKamyshev Jan 4
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      3. But then, who was the meta-model who told me to pick the second model rather than the first model for advice on what to watch? And who was the meta-meta-model—let’s call it a super-model—who told me to trust that meta-model rather than some other meta-model Answer: The State.

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    4. Pasha Kamyshev‏ @PashaKamyshev Jan 4
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      4. On a meta-point, an inability to answer this question should not be a knock on a theory or an automatic fall back to "individual". Individuals are important, but are also a product of causal processes that create them. This fact is deeply uncomfortable.

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    5. Pasha Kamyshev‏ @PashaKamyshev Jan 4
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      5. The piece reads like a typical Kegan Stage 4 unwilling to understand Stage 5. The idea that the Individual's values are not born out of some aether, but are a product of group conflict and mimetic desire / anti-desire is true, but uncomfortable for an atomic modern worldview.

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    6. Pasha Kamyshev‏ @PashaKamyshev Jan 4
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      6. If someone thinks Zooey Deschanel is more attractive than Ann Coulter, what's at play is not just desire, but also hate. That someone probably hates Ann, because ..... well I am going to guess that their friends hate her... but you knew i was going to say that.

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    7. Pasha Kamyshev‏ @PashaKamyshev Jan 4
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      7. Borrowed desires are not "news". Trying to elevate them to a fundamental cause might be news in the current culture (although Buddhists talked about "reducing desire" for a while.

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    8. Pasha Kamyshev‏ @PashaKamyshev Jan 4
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      8. Girard's theory is good precisely because it attempts to be a Theory of Everything. We need more Theories of Everything that build a worldview and not half-hearted critiques with no alternative explanations of causality actually works.

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    9. Pasha Kamyshev‏ @PashaKamyshev Jan 4
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      9. Girard in "Things" spends some pages on homosexuality. He answers are so far outside the Overton Window, people reading him don't know they exist.

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    10. Pasha Kamyshev‏ @PashaKamyshev Jan 4
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      10. And lastly: Scapegoating is a massive force that is sometimes all that brings certain groups together (always temporarily). When it happens, the group doing it, of course, views it as legitimate, but the logical cracks in this legitimacy leads to pervasive mental errors.

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      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness Jan 4
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      Replying to @PashaKamyshev

      Thank you, this was helpful!

      8:14 PM - 4 Jan 2020
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      • Pasha Kamyshev
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