So glad. Yeah, the whole point is practicality and simplicity of use. Empirically based.
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Replying to @OortCloudAtlas
Looking forward to your discussion of cessations with Daniel. As I mentioned when we talked about this in person, this is not part of the meditation systems I’ve practiced. However, it’s a covered in detail in the bardo teachings. I’m curious whether there’s commonality there.
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Replying to @Meaningness
I would guess that it's exactly the same phenomenon, but would be interested and open to learning that it's something different. There's a lot of confusion around similar terms meaning different things in these realms.
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Replying to @OortCloudAtlas
Is there an explicit equation in Theravada of cessations in meditation with the stages of the death and rebirth experiences?
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Replying to @Meaningness @OortCloudAtlas
FWIW, there are several things in Vajrayana lineages which sound a lot like Therevadan cessation - but I don’t know enough directly to be able to add much to the different/same phenomenology debate There’s also the matter of metaphysics and phenomenology getting muddled.
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It’s interesting how attitudes towards the in/significance of cessation changed over the development of dzogchen lineages. I’d like to learn more about the history of how the metaphysics/phenomenology developed with different practices...but I suspecct the history isn’t there.
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Replying to @misen__ @OortCloudAtlas
Is this in the bardo literature, or elsewhere? Pointers? Tx
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Replying to @Meaningness @OortCloudAtlas
Mi'sen Retweeted Mi'sen
I was thinking of some references in a few namthars and pith instruction texts. I was thinking of mostly this sort of thing:https://twitter.com/misen__/status/1053336842697875457?s=21 …
Mi'sen added,
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Replying to @misen__ @OortCloudAtlas
Ah! Hmm. This is interesting for the explicit use of the word “cessation”… I’ve read and heard similar warnings in Dzogchen contexts, but I had interpreted them somewhat differently. (It’s probably pointless to try to discuss this on twitter, but…) >
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I had understood the Dzogchen warnings as referring to a (pretty familiar) state you drift into gradually as you lose touch with the world, a sort of anesthetic loss of clarity culminating in something similar to deep sleep without consciousness.
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Whereas I took the cessations @OortCloudAtlas describes to be sudden, to start from a state of high awareness (within which the senses have fully disassembled into buzzing), and the quality of the unconsciousness to be more like a faint than sleep.
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Ultimately this may not matter, since for Dzogchen the practice is simply the presence of awareness in whatever state you find yourself in (including deep sleep and presumably also extreme mental dullness), but from a path pov the methods of locating awareness might differ
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