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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. Kaj Sotala‏ @xuenay 16 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @xuenay @Meaningness and

      Not that there would be no important issues about intentionality... but e.g. this seems to hinge on whether logical relationships are physical? That kind of thing makes me skeptical about whether the argument has any real-world relevance rather than just playing with words.pic.twitter.com/OIJXn7xUz8

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Kaj Sotala‏ @xuenay 16 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @xuenay @Meaningness and

      If logical relationships being non-physical is a problem for some overly strict version of physicalism, so much worse for that theory. But why is that interesting? It makes no real world predictions, AFAICT.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Kaj Sotala‏ @xuenay 16 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @xuenay @Meaningness and

      (not that a philosophical argument would always need to, but if you claim this to be an important reason for why our model of mind is wrong, you need to cash out the argument in real world terms or it's impossible for me to evaluate)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Kaj Sotala‏ @xuenay 16 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @xuenay @Meaningness and

      Of course, I might just be entirely misunderstanding the whole thing. :-) feel free to let me know in that case

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 16 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @xuenay @_awbery_ @OortCloudAtlas

      Hmm, yes, this does needs more explanation than is feasible on twitter!

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 16 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @xuenay and

      I guess I can try to clarify one thing. The observation is not that submind theory requires a homunculus more than some other similar theory. It’s that it doesn’t need spookiness any less. That is: sharding the ghost in the machine doesn’t help; you just get lots of 👻s

      2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    7. Gary Basin  💡‏ @garybasin 16 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @xuenay and

      Unless we're talking about subminds that aren't minds, in any typical sense of the word. Kind of like adding epicycles? Maybe be wrong, but still can be useful

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 16 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @garybasin @xuenay and

      Well Minsky’s SOM project was to understand intelligence by breaking into successively smaller, less-intelligent pieces, until you got to pieces that don’t need to be intelligent at all. That didn’t work then, but there’s no a priori reason it might not work (afawk).

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 16 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @garybasin and

      It doesn’t seem that you can apply the same approach to intentionality or subjectivity, though. There’s no concept of “simpler and therefore somewhat less referential” or “simpler and somewhat less aware.”

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 16 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @garybasin and

      Specifically wrt submind theory, the subminds are taken as having beliefs, desires, and intentions, which are no less spooky than those of the person as a whole.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 16 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @garybasin and

      As Rin’dzin mentioned in the podcast, I find the submind approach *majorly* valuable in understanding myself, but I regard it as a heuristically useful metaphor, rather than as an actual explanation.

      10:54 AM - 16 Aug 2019
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      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
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        2. Charlie Awbery‏ @_awbery_ 16 Aug 2019
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          Replying to @Meaningness @garybasin and

          My experience of stuff arising in mind is that it’s arbitrary and random - I find it hard to ascribe intentionality/agency, even when points of reference for content of the thought or whatever is arising are apparent. Didn’t think to mention that in the podcast.

          1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
        3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 16 Aug 2019
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          Replying to @_awbery_ @garybasin and

          Yes... my take is that some of us organize some of that random material into person-like clusters. Probably initially through internalization of relationships, in the ways Vygotsky and the object-relations school both separately theorized.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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