Are there any accounts of "emptiness", preferably purely phenomenological/methodological, that don't presume a contentious metaphysics?
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Replying to @FateOfTwist_
“The absence of thought with the presence of awareness” seems relatively unproblematic. (Although the possibility if rhat is denied by some major philosophers.) Nb I don’t particularly advocate that definition, just noting it as reasonably inoffensive metaphysically
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Replying to @Meaningness
What do you not like about it, that it is in some sense misleading (like given differing interpretations of what "thought" is), or that it is outright false/there is more to it?
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Replying to @FateOfTwist_ @Meaningness
What is it like for you, or anyone who has practice with emptiness, to be confronted by the question "what is 94 + 67", and to answer it? From reading your stuff, it doesn't seem like emptiness is incompatible with computing this, but that seems incompatible with "no thought"
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Replying to @FateOfTwist_
For Vajrayana, emptiness is not the goal; it is in fact the starting point. (Sutrayana takes emptiness as the goal.) Emptiness and form are inseparable; they are two aspects of the same thing, and conceptually distinguishing them is somewhat of a distortion.
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Replying to @Meaningness
I want to find this starting point, and I think I know at least some of the phenomenology that is going on there, but the explanations also get wrapped up in metaphysics that I can't accept because they imply a rejection, not enrichment, of the ordinary everyday
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Replying to @FateOfTwist_
Yes. Good. This is precisely the distinction between Sutrayana and Vajrayana.https://vividness.live/2013/10/24/sutra-tantra-and-the-modern-worldview/ …
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Replying to @Meaningness
1/ My statement was a bit misleading. There's rejection of ordinary everyday in the sense of rejecting the world and becoming a hermit, but there is also rejecting the ordinary everyday understanding, like in "everything is an illusion" or "there is no self"
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Ah; right. I would also not accept explanations of that sort. Both of those statements are pernicious and false.
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