Yes, since the sutra-vs-tantra distinction is difficult enough for beginners, I avoid talking about all the within-tantra distinctions. The purificatory yanas are another whole different thing, although emically counted as tantra. They don’t seem useful in (post)modernity.
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I’m describing “tantra” more-or-less from the view of anuyoga (which appears on the rigpawiki chart). That corresponds roughly to “nondual tantra” in some other Tibetan systems. https://vividness.live/2012/04/28/the-power-of-an-attitude/ …pic.twitter.com/FcuSZfNVCt
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Huh! Ok, so... is that why Bodhisattva "vows" don't quite make sense in tantra? Because instead of saying, "I vow to keep trying for the impossible" it's like... get on with it? (I'm reminded of Alan Watts saying, "Oh, come off it, Shiva!")
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Replying to @SarahAMcManus @Meaningness and
I guess I've maybe thought of the vows as like the parts of calculus where the dang sigmas come in, and sometimes it's a complicated-looking thing that adds up to 1. So you could go iterate stepwise through it, or get how it comes out?
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I'm sorry, I couldn't follow that metaphor?
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Hmm... just thought of that metaphor, and it may not hold up. In calculus, my eyes always glazed over when they got to series. So, this feels very fuzzy. I'm thinking of this version of the vows (image):pic.twitter.com/sPsFgfoBOt
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Yes… this version is common in American Zen centers… I’m not sure where it originates. (I don’t know much about Zen.) “Mahayana” is a big muddle, but its conceptions of enlightenment are mostly obviously impossible, so the vows are obviously silly, and this dramatizes that.
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Replying to @Meaningness @SarahAMcManus and
I'm in the pre-Jukai process so I've been thinking about similar stuff a lot, recently. One metaphor I like: "There's a mountaintop. Mahayana is trying to get to the mountaintop by scaling the sheer cliff face..."
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Replying to @MilanGriffes @Meaningness and
"... Theravada is taking the slow, winding path along the backside of the mountain. And Tibetan is sitting at the base, imagining really granularly what it'd like to be at the top, and suddenly you're there."
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Yes, I think it’s a helpful analogy! I’ve elaborated on it here, fwiw:https://vividness.live/2013/12/12/emptiness-zen-tantra-dzogchen/ …
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