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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. Malcolm  ☣️cean - check sense of smell  👃 —  🌎 🇨🇦‏ @Malcolm_Ocean 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @Meaningness @_awbery_

      - is the previous confusion coming from the fact that lots of people do only renunciate, & lots of people do both? (are there people who do no renunciate stuff?) - I think I had a concept of one big path & one big goal, but it sounds like... are these paths... fractal?pic.twitter.com/HEOgYBupkm

      4 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Malcolm  ☣️cean - check sense of smell  👃 —  🌎 🇨🇦‏ @Malcolm_Ocean 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @Meaningness @_awbery_

      (re previous tweet: to be clear, I mean: multiple big paths and multiple big goals, but each path roughly leads to one specific goal and you don't try to follow multiple paths or you'd get lost or end up somewhere else entirely)

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    3. Malcolm  ☣️cean - check sense of smell  👃 —  🌎 🇨🇦‏ @Malcolm_Ocean 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @Meaningness @_awbery_

      Oh also: where does the concept of bodhisattva fit into all of this? does it have as much to do with mahayana as the chart from that wiki suggests?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Malcolm  ☣️cean - check sense of smell  👃 —  🌎 🇨🇦‏ @Malcolm_Ocean 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @Meaningness @_awbery_

      Oh also: David's chart, which puts Sutra as renunciate and Tantra as exultant (https://vividness.live/2013/10/23/sutra-vs-tantra/ …) seems (to my very new understanding) to be in contradiction to the chart from Rigpa Wiki (https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Nine_yanas …) with the "outer tantras" as ascetic. ascetic ≠ renunciate?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

      Yes, since the sutra-vs-tantra distinction is difficult enough for beginners, I avoid talking about all the within-tantra distinctions. The purificatory yanas are another whole different thing, although emically counted as tantra. They don’t seem useful in (post)modernity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

      I’m describing “tantra” more-or-less from the view of anuyoga (which appears on the rigpawiki chart). That corresponds roughly to “nondual tantra” in some other Tibetan systems. https://vividness.live/2012/04/28/the-power-of-an-attitude/ …pic.twitter.com/FcuSZfNVCt

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    7. Sarah McManus‏ @SarahAMcManus 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

      Huh! Ok, so... is that why Bodhisattva "vows" don't quite make sense in tantra? Because instead of saying, "I vow to keep trying for the impossible" it's like... get on with it? (I'm reminded of Alan Watts saying, "Oh, come off it, Shiva!")

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Sarah McManus‏ @SarahAMcManus 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @SarahAMcManus @Meaningness and

      I guess I've maybe thought of the vows as like the parts of calculus where the dang sigmas come in, and sometimes it's a complicated-looking thing that adds up to 1. So you could go iterate stepwise through it, or get how it comes out?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @SarahAMcManus @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

      I'm sorry, I couldn't follow that metaphor?

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    10. Sarah McManus‏ @SarahAMcManus 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

      Hmm... just thought of that metaphor, and it may not hold up. In calculus, my eyes always glazed over when they got to series. So, this feels very fuzzy. I'm thinking of this version of the vows (image):pic.twitter.com/sPsFgfoBOt

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @SarahAMcManus @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

      Yes… this version is common in American Zen centers… I’m not sure where it originates. (I don’t know much about Zen.) “Mahayana” is a big muddle, but its conceptions of enlightenment are mostly obviously impossible, so the vows are obviously silly, and this dramatizes that.

      12:16 PM - 19 Apr 2019
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        1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 19 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @Meaningness @SarahAMcManus and

          This post goes into that in some detail: https://vividness.live/2012/05/03/your-self-is-not-a-spiritual-obstacle/ …pic.twitter.com/veCFoztI54

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        2. Milan Griffes‏ @MilanGriffes 19 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @Meaningness @SarahAMcManus and

          I'm in the pre-Jukai process so I've been thinking about similar stuff a lot, recently. One metaphor I like: "There's a mountaintop. Mahayana is trying to get to the mountaintop by scaling the sheer cliff face..."

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Milan Griffes‏ @MilanGriffes 19 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @MilanGriffes @Meaningness and

          "... Theravada is taking the slow, winding path along the backside of the mountain. And Tibetan is sitting at the base, imagining really granularly what it'd like to be at the top, and suddenly you're there."

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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