Principles thing is helpful! Things I'm still confused about: - do people who successfully follow renunciate paths end up renunciate forever? is this considered correct, or an accident? - how does that relate to the idea that one might switch back & forth between sutra & trantra?
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- is the previous confusion coming from the fact that lots of people do only renunciate, & lots of people do both? (are there people who do no renunciate stuff?) - I think I had a concept of one big path & one big goal, but it sounds like... are these paths... fractal?pic.twitter.com/HEOgYBupkm
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(re previous tweet: to be clear, I mean: multiple big paths and multiple big goals, but each path roughly leads to one specific goal and you don't try to follow multiple paths or you'd get lost or end up somewhere else entirely)
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Oh also: where does the concept of bodhisattva fit into all of this? does it have as much to do with mahayana as the chart from that wiki suggests?
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Oh also: David's chart, which puts Sutra as renunciate and Tantra as exultant (https://vividness.live/2013/10/23/sutra-vs-tantra/ …) seems (to my very new understanding) to be in contradiction to the chart from Rigpa Wiki (https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Nine_yanas …) with the "outer tantras" as ascetic. ascetic ≠ renunciate?
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Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_
Yes, since the sutra-vs-tantra distinction is difficult enough for beginners, I avoid talking about all the within-tantra distinctions. The purificatory yanas are another whole different thing, although emically counted as tantra. They don’t seem useful in (post)modernity.
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I’m describing “tantra” more-or-less from the view of anuyoga (which appears on the rigpawiki chart). That corresponds roughly to “nondual tantra” in some other Tibetan systems. https://vividness.live/2012/04/28/the-power-of-an-attitude/ …pic.twitter.com/FcuSZfNVCt
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Huh! Ok, so... is that why Bodhisattva "vows" don't quite make sense in tantra? Because instead of saying, "I vow to keep trying for the impossible" it's like... get on with it? (I'm reminded of Alan Watts saying, "Oh, come off it, Shiva!")
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Replying to @SarahAMcManus @Meaningness and
I guess I've maybe thought of the vows as like the parts of calculus where the dang sigmas come in, and sometimes it's a complicated-looking thing that adds up to 1. So you could go iterate stepwise through it, or get how it comes out?
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Replying to @SarahAMcManus @Meaningness and
Also, I have no idea how y'all think of Alan Watts! I feel very fortunate to have downloaded like 3 gigs of his stuff in 2010 - provided an extremely useful memetic vaccine against nihilism & more virulent philosophies. But maybe he leans monist / eternalist / muddled?
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> he leans monist / eternalist / muddled? Yup. But I like him a lot anyway. He does say a lot of good stuff, and tells great jokes.
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