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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 18 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Malcolm_Ocean

      It's not clear how much Buddhism is left in that, if any. However, there seems to be a significant remaining renunciate flavor (left over from the Hinayana roots), which is @_awbery_ is preparing to suggest causes problems.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Malcolm  ☣️cean - check sense of smell  👃 —  🌎 🇨🇦‏ @Malcolm_Ocean 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @_awbery_

      Principles thing is helpful! Things I'm still confused about: - do people who successfully follow renunciate paths end up renunciate forever? is this considered correct, or an accident? - how does that relate to the idea that one might switch back & forth between sutra & trantra?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Malcolm  ☣️cean - check sense of smell  👃 —  🌎 🇨🇦‏ @Malcolm_Ocean 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @Meaningness @_awbery_

      - is the previous confusion coming from the fact that lots of people do only renunciate, & lots of people do both? (are there people who do no renunciate stuff?) - I think I had a concept of one big path & one big goal, but it sounds like... are these paths... fractal?pic.twitter.com/HEOgYBupkm

      4 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Malcolm  ☣️cean - check sense of smell  👃 —  🌎 🇨🇦‏ @Malcolm_Ocean 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @Meaningness @_awbery_

      (re previous tweet: to be clear, I mean: multiple big paths and multiple big goals, but each path roughly leads to one specific goal and you don't try to follow multiple paths or you'd get lost or end up somewhere else entirely)

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Malcolm  ☣️cean - check sense of smell  👃 —  🌎 🇨🇦‏ @Malcolm_Ocean 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @Meaningness @_awbery_

      Oh also: where does the concept of bodhisattva fit into all of this? does it have as much to do with mahayana as the chart from that wiki suggests?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Malcolm  ☣️cean - check sense of smell  👃 —  🌎 🇨🇦‏ @Malcolm_Ocean 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @Meaningness @_awbery_

      Oh also: David's chart, which puts Sutra as renunciate and Tantra as exultant (https://vividness.live/2013/10/23/sutra-vs-tantra/ …) seems (to my very new understanding) to be in contradiction to the chart from Rigpa Wiki (https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Nine_yanas …) with the "outer tantras" as ascetic. ascetic ≠ renunciate?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

      Yes, since the sutra-vs-tantra distinction is difficult enough for beginners, I avoid talking about all the within-tantra distinctions. The purificatory yanas are another whole different thing, although emically counted as tantra. They don’t seem useful in (post)modernity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

      I’m describing “tantra” more-or-less from the view of anuyoga (which appears on the rigpawiki chart). That corresponds roughly to “nondual tantra” in some other Tibetan systems. https://vividness.live/2012/04/28/the-power-of-an-attitude/ …pic.twitter.com/FcuSZfNVCt

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    9. Sarah McManus‏ @SarahAMcManus 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

      Huh! Ok, so... is that why Bodhisattva "vows" don't quite make sense in tantra? Because instead of saying, "I vow to keep trying for the impossible" it's like... get on with it? (I'm reminded of Alan Watts saying, "Oh, come off it, Shiva!")

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Sarah McManus‏ @SarahAMcManus 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @SarahAMcManus @Meaningness and

      I guess I've maybe thought of the vows as like the parts of calculus where the dang sigmas come in, and sometimes it's a complicated-looking thing that adds up to 1. So you could go iterate stepwise through it, or get how it comes out?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 19 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @SarahAMcManus @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

      I'm sorry, I couldn't follow that metaphor?

      12:00 PM - 19 Apr 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Sarah McManus‏ @SarahAMcManus 19 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @Meaningness @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

          Hmm... just thought of that metaphor, and it may not hold up. In calculus, my eyes always glazed over when they got to series. So, this feels very fuzzy. I'm thinking of this version of the vows (image):pic.twitter.com/sPsFgfoBOt

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 19 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @SarahAMcManus @Malcolm_Ocean @_awbery_

          Yes… this version is common in American Zen centers… I’m not sure where it originates. (I don’t know much about Zen.) “Mahayana” is a big muddle, but its conceptions of enlightenment are mostly obviously impossible, so the vows are obviously silly, and this dramatizes that.

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