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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 15 Apr 2019
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      The motivations for Simula 67 (and so OOP) were dual. Simula I’s fixed event loop was restrictive; they wanted a language within which it could be expressed, to give greater flexibility. And, they loved Algol 60 except for its numerous deficiencies, which they hoped to fix.pic.twitter.com/3KYnsQ0uuq

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    2. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 15 Apr 2019
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      Algol’s underlying problem was lack of closures. If you have them, all its weird specific issues (like, yikes, call-by-name) go away. OOP languages are all Algol-derivatives, and it seems that OOP was always an incoherent bag of kludges for working around closurelessness.pic.twitter.com/ZkaT4whPVQ

      3 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
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    3. Brian Marick‏ @marick 15 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness

      The objects-are-closures argument (which I myself used in https://leanpub.com/fp-oo ) is weak on the pragmatics: a closure is an object with one method: "do that thing you do". That describes almost no objects that people actually use.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Brian Marick‏ @marick 15 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @marick @Meaningness

      It seems more useful to say that "an object is a type + a set of exported functions from a module". If you want polymorphism, graft on something like Haskell typeclasses or Clojure records (or CLOS).

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 15 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @marick

      I founded a tech company that used lisp almost exclusively and refused to use clos :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. mtraven‏ @mtraven 16 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @marick

      Seem to recall I reintroduced CLOS into that same company...we could resume that 20 year old argument.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 16 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @mtraven @marick

      David Chapman Retweeted David Chapman

      Yeah, I was wrong:https://twitter.com/Meaningness/status/1117950622907555840 …

      David Chapman added,

      David Chapman @Meaningness
      Replying to @marick
      Yes, there are cases in which “objects” are the right thing; but they are rare and you can build them as needed. (And in the end my banning CLOS wasn’t actually right.)
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. mtraven‏ @mtraven 16 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @marick

      Objects are just a somewhat decent way to create and enforce consistent modularity, something needed when software grows beyond a certain level of complexity. Best understood as intellectual scaffolding for humans.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. zing mud chandelier‏ @ngvrnd 16 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @mtraven @Meaningness @marick

      But inheritance is mostly an attractive nuisance

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    10. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 16 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @ngvrnd @mtraven @marick

      I think inheritance is often valuable, fwiw. The in-practice problem seems to be more that there are multiple ideas of “inheritance” and they aren’t clearly compatible with each other and when you mix them up with the other features that get bundled into “objects,” it gets messy

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 16 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ngvrnd and

      I’d kind of like to unbundle the different ideas that go into “object-oriented” and orthogonalize them so you can cleanly mix in the subset of features you really need in a particular case. I don’t know of a system that does this—do any of you?

      1:02 PM - 16 Apr 2019
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      • zing mud chandelier Font of Augurs
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        2. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 16 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @Meaningness @ngvrnd and

          I’ve been working with the python object system recently. It’s ludicrously crude and the wrong thing, BUT it has a powerful metaprogramming feature that means in principle you can make it do something completely different. Seems that’s considered “unpythonic” though

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. mtraven‏ @mtraven 16 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @Meaningness @ngvrnd @marick

          You might like Clojure, which is like Lisp but far more functional and rather anti-OOP, although it includes a feature from which you can build your own method dispatch logic. https://clojure.org/reference/multimethods …

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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        2. sam atman‏ @djinnius 16 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @Meaningness @ngvrnd and

          Lua

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