Well… I hope that the eggplant book, when/if I finish it, will be easy for typical LW people to understand, and many will actually get it. It tries to say clearly and straightforwardly things that have only previously been said obscurely in dense technical jargon.
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Replying to @Meaningness @ribbonfarm
I feel like we got a little sidetracked from what was my original point - it wasn't really about LW rationalists as such, but rather about the broader orange/green/yellow divide (which affects discussions on LW among other places). Let me try to rephrase -
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People experience orange and green as being opposed because of narratives which paint them as being opposed. Then people who tend towards one side or the other, will tend to dismiss the opposite side, because they buy into the narrative that says it's one or the other.
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Me talking about tribalism wasn't really intended to be about LW-rationalists, but rather the broader tribalism of STEM-leaning vs. arts&humanities-leaning people tending to dismiss each other.
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I like both, but I'm much more familiar with how orange thinks. So the question that I focus on the most is, "how can I communicate to fellow oranges that green has merit". I try to do that by expressing green's strengths in orange's language.
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In particular, I try to show that you can derive the reasons for also being green, from the basic assumptions in orange's framework. Thus making green actually an extension of orange, which the logic of orange compels oranges to adopt.
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This is in part derived from conflict resolution practices - to reduce hostility, emphasize similarities and de-emphasize dissimilarities between people. And I think that if people can be convinced that these are really the same, then they can study orange and green in parallel.
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Since they are seen as complimentary aspects of the same art, rather than two distinct things. Ideally if this new narrative would take hold, then everyone would end up yellow by default, since there was no reason to have loyalty to just one of them.
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But this makes me averse of approaches where yellow is explicitly contrasted with orange and made to be a totally different thing. I think that's again emphasizing differences and making them more salient, which feels like the opposite of what I think would be a good strategy.
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That said, it's plausible that your strategy is better than mine; it could be that the difference is already so salient in people's minds, that you *have* to address it explicitly in those terms, and that my approach is doomed.
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You raise excellent points here, and I’m sympathetic to the approach you are taking. I certainly agree that minimizing conflict is worthwhile. On other points, the best way forward is not clear to me. Let me point out some possible objections and alternatives…
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Replying to @Meaningness @xuenay
I’m not a spiral dynamics expert, and don’t really buy the framework, but my understanding is that according to it green and orange actually do contradict. Yellow is not just combining them, or accepting both; you can’t do that.
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Replying to @Meaningness @xuenay
Yellow “transcends and includes” both orange and green. The “transcends” means a qualitative transformation based on explicitly understanding the internal logic of the others, seeing both their strengths and failure modes, and constructing something different from both.
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