This event profoundly shaped our world, but it has never been explained clearly, afaik. My eggplant book tries; but only relatively briefly (~50 pages) because it’s just background to my actual topics. Wish I could recommend a good source instead.https://twitter.com/everytstudies/status/1108008134839320579 …
-
Show this thread
-
Most ideologies spawn “deconversion narratives,” from believers who realized the ism was false and left. Why are there so few rationalist deconversion narratives? Maybe postrational nihilism is so dreary that almost no one has the energy for it. Mine: https://meaningness.com/metablog/ken-wilber-boomeritis-artificial-intelligence …pic.twitter.com/X0X41jHoCG
10 replies 5 retweets 27 likesShow this thread -
Three years ago, I complained that writing up exactly what’s wrong with rationalism would be a drag, though a necessary public service. That part of The Eggplant is complete. Until I explain the better alternative, it’s worse than useless though. https://meaningness.com/metablog/ken-wilber-boomeritis-artificial-intelligence …pic.twitter.com/fsLt5DumBA
3 replies 0 retweets 12 likesShow this thread -
Table of contents from the part of the Eggplant book explaining why rationalism can’t work. As you can see, I was only able to complete it by including a lot of whimsical examples to amuse myself.pic.twitter.com/4Wq20swOJK
3 replies 0 retweets 12 likesShow this thread -
Replying to @Meaningness
I suspect that that orange/green/yellow thing hints at an answer: deconversion narratives talk about how you discovered that X is totally false. But moving on to yellow doesn't feel like totally renouncing orange; it feels like building a more sophisticated version of it.
1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes -
Replying to @xuenay @Meaningness
Going from a child to an adult doesn't feel like renouncing the understanding of the world that you had as a child, even if much of your old understanding was wrong. It just feels like your understanding gradually getting better.
2 replies 0 retweets 10 likes -
Replying to @xuenay @Meaningness
(this is why I also dislike the whole rationality vs. meta-rationality terminology: it's creating an artificial distinction and a tribal narrative, when IMO there's just a continuous refinement and increasing sophistication of the art of rationality)
4 replies 0 retweets 10 likes -
Replying to @xuenay
Could you say more about "tribal narrative"? I'm puzzled. I know of only about five people who call themselves meta-rationalists (and I've had only brief internet interactions with most of them). There's no tribe that I know of, or tribalism?
1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes -
Replying to @Meaningness @xuenay
There's maybe a few dozen people who identify as "postrationalists"? Some congregate in the community
@ribbonfarm has created (which is great), but that doesn't seem like a "tribe" to me (and I don't feel a part of it, exactly, although I'm friendly to it).1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes -
Replying to @Meaningness @ribbonfarm
There have been some fights about it on LW and in other places, e.g. the thread starting from nshepperd's comment at https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/5LP6Jc8ztwcyb296X/outline-of-metarationality-or-much-less-than-you-wanted-to … . I assumed that you were aware of it, since your writings occasionally get cited in those arguments, but I guess I was mistaken.
3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
Whoa, that looks like an exhausting and frustrating conversation! I’ve only scrolled through it rapidly, and even THAT was exhausting and frustrating! Kudos to you for persisting.
-
-
Replying to @Meaningness @xuenay
From the superficial impression I got, this was pretty much the standard argument-with-stubborn-rationalist that I’ve been having since 1987. I didn’t see in it the tribalism discussion. (But I only scrolled through it rapidly.)
@ribbonfarm1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes -
I totally believe the tribalist discussion exists, and I think I have seen one brief example of it on LW somewhere. It’s true that postrats/metarats (including me) can be irritable and dismissive of rationalists when they get into the sort of argument you had there.
1 reply 0 retweets 1 like - 42 more replies
New conversation -
Loading seems to be taking a while.
Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information.