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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 11 Jan 2019
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      Pit-traps for rationalists: the seductive appeal of seemingly-universal frameworks that hardly ever work in practice. You can waste your entire career on one. You can waste an entire academic discipline and billions of dollars of research funding on one. https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2019/01/10/remembering-pierre-kabamba/ …pic.twitter.com/GDMTGUSyTg

      9 replies 37 retweets 145 likes
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    2. Thomas Depierre‏ @Di4naO 11 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness

      Feel strange as i call myself a system thinker *because* i believed that a grand model is not possible and that models are at best local (in all dimensions). That said, i may just live in different circles than the author ;)

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 11 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @Di4naO

      Yes I think “systems thinking” is used two mean two almost opposite things. Rooted in disagreements among the founders of cybernetics in the 1950s I think. Cc @vgr

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Venkatesh brrrRao‏ @vgr 11 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @Meaningness @Di4naO

      More 60s. In engineering, it's usually either called controls or systems and control. People who use "systems theory" tend to be either Wiener-cybernetics people, or from the "system dynamics" fork due to Jay Forrester (stock-flow diagrams and such... Limits to Growth for eg)

      3 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 11 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @vgr @Di4naO

      I think the other sense originates with Bateson maybe?

      2:41 PM - 11 Jan 2019
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        2. mtraven‏ @mtraven 11 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @Meaningness @vgr @Di4naO

          Yeah I associate it with Bateson, Buckminster Fuller and early Whole Earth Catalog stuff. https://monoskop.org/images/0/09/Brand_Stewart_Whole_Earth_Catalog_Fall_1968.pdf …pic.twitter.com/re2mThKkev

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Venkatesh brrrRao‏ @vgr 11 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @mtraven @Meaningness @Di4naO

          Oh yeah Stewart Brand is descended from that lineage, I forgot. Fred Turner covers that https://fredturner.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/Turner-Larson-Network-Celebrity-PC-2015.pdf …

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        2. Venkatesh brrrRao‏ @vgr 11 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @Meaningness @Di4naO

          Bateson was in cybernetics gang iirc. He extended it into social sciences. I don’t know that I’d say there’s really 2 uses of the term. The truly distinct thing would be Santa Fe/chaoplexity crowd who do things in a meaningfully different way and call it complex systems theory

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        3.  🕷BenjaminP.Taylor 🇪🇺‏ @antlerboy 11 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @vgr @Meaningness @Di4naO

          Plenty of room for debate about how different (or advisable) that debate is! We might say that most if not all forms of 'systems' and 'complexity' have - despite intentionallt coming from a different paradigm - the risk of bekng co-opted into a mechanistic world-view.

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        4. End of conversation

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