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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 12 Nov 2018
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    Neat collection of AI systems doing absurd things because the problem formulation they were given was wrong. Problem formation (a meta-rational activity) is undervalued and under-researched relative to problem solving. by @vkrakovna ♻️@RivalVoices https://vkrakovna.wordpress.com/2018/04/02/specification-gaming-examples-in-ai/ …

    9:06 AM - 12 Nov 2018
    • 13 Retweets
    • 43 Likes
    • Ucedo Newton Centro de Estudios Abeoma admzmf Billy Smith Udge Raymond 🕷BenjaminP.Taylor🇪🇺 Ricardo Blanch PM
    5 replies 13 retweets 43 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. ≠ Dividualism ≠‏ @DividualsTweet 12 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @Meaningness @vkrakovna @RivalVoices

        WTF is meta-rational? Every end is a mean to another: in view of the second end, it is rational or not. Metarationality requires Aquinas' Summum Bonum or Buddha's dukkha.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 12 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @DividualsTweet @vkrakovna @RivalVoices

        Definition and brief summary of meta-rationality, as I use the term:https://meaningness.com/eggplant/terms#meta …

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. 2 more replies
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      2. Stephen Pimentel‏ @StephenPiment 12 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @Meaningness @vkrakovna @RivalVoices

        That's one way to look at it. Another is that many of these specifications are game rules actually intended for human beings and dependent on human interpretation. The algorithms expose and exploit the gap between perfectly adequate rules for humans and formal specifications.

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 12 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @StephenPiment @vkrakovna @RivalVoices

        Excellent point, yes!

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Evan Driscoll‏ @KeenDisregard 12 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @Meaningness @vkrakovna @RivalVoices

        Please, if you haven't, read the short article "The Problem of the Problem" by Getzels. So. Damn. Good.

        2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
      3. Evan Driscoll‏ @KeenDisregard 23 Sep 2019
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        Replying to @KeenDisregard @Meaningness and

        Found it https://www.evandriscoll.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/The-Problem-Of-The-Problem-Getzels.pdf … "At the core of an effective solution is a productive problem. It is this that makes the problem of the problem such and important subject for systematic inquiry."

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. 2 more replies
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      2. eran‏ @eran 12 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @Meaningness @vkrakovna @RivalVoices

        This is remarkably similar to how people behave inside simulated environments. In online games this is called cheating and in single player games it’s a cornerstone of speed runs.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. eran‏ @eran 12 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @eran @Meaningness and

        Examples: https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/new-glitch-reignites-the-super-mario-bros-speedrun-rac-1787596081/amp … https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/the-man-who-does-the-impossible-in-super-mario-64-1656869221/amp … Also, can’t find link right now but one included glitching our of the game world and using that to “teleport” to other parts of the game.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Haig Շ‏ @haig 12 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @Meaningness @vkrakovna @RivalVoices

        I agree, but where does the tower of meta-rational problem specifications end? I argue (Transhu-)man is the measure of all things, & conscious decision-making, qualia & all, is required for human+ level intelligence.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Haig Շ‏ @haig 12 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @haig @Meaningness and

        Without conscious "autogeny", systems are forever plagued by "formalist float":https://goo.gl/124qB9 

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation

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