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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 4 Sep 2018

    “If your method requires infinite storage space and computation speed to use, the problem is not that finite beings aren’t sufficiently rational, it’s that your method doesn’t work.” (@nostalgebraist re Bayes, but applies to many rationalist fantasies.)http://nostalgebraist.tumblr.com/post/161645122124/bayes-a-kinda-sorta-masterpost …

    2:01 AM - 4 Sep 2018
    • 9 Retweets
    • 58 Likes
    • Olio Pantalonia Charles Chu Johann MS Bestowrous Rushi Matthew M UltimApe 🐜💩💛 José Luis Ricón (Artir) St. Rev ☯️🏴😻 aichip
    4 replies 9 retweets 58 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Kaj Sotala‏ @xuenay 5 Sep 2018
        Replying to @Meaningness @nostalgebraist

        Worth noting that this was written before Eliezer's "Toolbox-thinking and Law-thinking"; several LW commenters seem to feel that that the T-T & L-T post addresses the criticisms in this post (based on the comments at https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/gsQjde3qeZw36arYE/nostalgebraist-bayes-a-kinda-sorta-masterpost … ).

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 5 Sep 2018
        Replying to @xuenay @nostalgebraist

        It doesn’t seem to me that EY’s post addresses the issues at all. But, after much effort, I don’t understand his point, so I might be missing something.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 5 Sep 2018
        Replying to @Meaningness @xuenay @nostalgebraist

        Afaict, EY is saying “PT is a set of axioms. If you accept the axioms, then you have to accept their mathematical consequences.” Which no one disputes. The question is, where do the axioms apply? Which he doesn’t seem to address at all.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Brewingsense‏ @brewingsense 4 Sep 2018
        Replying to @Meaningness @nostalgebraist

        It just occured to me that rationalisms are kind of deontological epistemologies. Not only the business of trying to reduce cognition to adherence to rules but also emotional dynamics seems similar. Does it make sense to you?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 4 Sep 2018
        Replying to @brewingsense @nostalgebraist

        Hmm, I’m not sure… say more, maybe? Bayesian rationalism is similar to utilitarianism, formally. I can’t make any sense of critical rationalism, but maybe it’s similar to virtue ethics?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Brewingsense‏ @brewingsense 4 Sep 2018
        Replying to @Meaningness @nostalgebraist

        I meant that it reduces coginition to following certain rules, in the way deontology reduces morality to following rules. But maybe the analogies with utilitarianism are stronger. Anyway, self-flagelation for falling short of an impossible and impractical ideal ensues.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 4 Sep 2018
        Replying to @brewingsense @nostalgebraist

        Yes, definitely that!

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Praxeologue‏ @praxeologue 4 Sep 2018
        Replying to @Meaningness @nostalgebraist

        I’m probably missing the point here but there are plenty of puzzles with solutions that are unsolvable regardless of endless compiting power , see Yanofskyhttps://mitpress.mit.edu/books/outer-limits-reason …

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. 3 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Marc‏ @zarzuelazen 9 Sep 2018
        Replying to @Meaningness @nostalgebraist

        I think I've put my finger on a definitive refutation of Bayesian philosophy! @DavidDeutschOxf @seanmcarroll While *physical* reductionism might be true, *theory* reductionism (trying to reduce high-level explanations to lower-level ones) is false! See: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3943#comments …

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Marc‏ @zarzuelazen 9 Sep 2018
        Replying to @zarzuelazen @Meaningness and

        The ladder of abstraction for computer science seems to be ‘Probability&Stats’ (most concrete) -> ‘Computational Complexity’ (middle-level) and ‘Computational Logic’ (most abstract). But theory reductionism is false! So the higher-level domains aren't reducible to probabilities!

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Marc‏ @zarzuelazen 9 Sep 2018
        Replying to @zarzuelazen @Meaningness and

        The art of reasoning is not arranged in a hierarchy like physics is! Rather, it's a network of coherent methods. No single foundation at the bottom! Set theory is *not* the foundation of pure math! And nor is probability theory the foundation of applied math!

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. IntuitionMachine‏ @IntuitMachine 9 Sep 2018
        Replying to @zarzuelazen @Meaningness and

        Should it be used as the basis of the scientific principle? No, just ask Judea Pearl. Should it be used as the basis of logic? No, just ask David Chapman. Should it be used for the basis human cognition? No: https://medium.com/intuitionmachine/why-probability-theory-should-be-thrown-under-the-bus-36e5d69a34c9 … . These are all different aspects though.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Marc‏ @zarzuelazen 9 Sep 2018
        Replying to @IntuitMachine @Meaningness and

        Ha, well I wouldn't go so far as to say 'throw it under the bus'. Probability&Stats is a valid component of computer science. But it's just one component.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. IntuitionMachine‏ @IntuitMachine 9 Sep 2018
        Replying to @zarzuelazen @Meaningness and

        I'm referring to its use as being the underlying mechanism for explaining human cognition. It is of course a valid tool for analyzing data .

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. End of conversation

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