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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 24 May 2018
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      Talk in the marketplace is that @jordanbpeterson is doing job #3 well for some. I’m doing an amateurish job of #4 because qualified wizards have gotten scarce. Neither of us is old enough to do job #5. You could try Robert Bly.

      3 replies 0 retweets 13 likes
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    2. will minshew‏ @wminshew 24 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @jordanbpeterson

      why aren't you old enough for #5? I don't think I agree with that statement

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 24 May 2018
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      Replying to @wminshew @jordanbpeterson

      I mostly don’t understand that phase. (There’s a lot I don’t understand about the middle one, too. I’m seriously not qualified, but hardly anyone else is trying, so …)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. will minshew‏ @wminshew 24 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @jordanbpeterson

      Fascinating. Your blog played a huge role in helping me out of the 4.5 throes of despair. To me, you were #5, and I see your blog as largely focusing on #5. Your humility here is making me seriously question my own (over?)confidence.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 24 May 2018
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      Replying to @wminshew

      Oh, I’m so glad it was useful! By “job #4” I mean “helping people from 4 to 5.” I’m trying to do that. I feel underqualified, but probably so does anyone else doing that. Job #5 comes later. Bly does write about it a bit, but not clearly. I could use some help myself.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. will minshew‏ @wminshew 24 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness

      Later.. hm. From my perspective #5 sounds like stage 5.. and #4 like 4.5 (3 still sounds like 3?). Perhaps it is just beyond me, for the time being. But if you think you might have the words to help me understand why #5 is beyond stage 5, I would love to listen

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    7. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 24 May 2018
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      Replying to @wminshew

      I am not sure it is different! As I said, this is at the edge of my understanding. Bly talks about grief and loss as a major aspect of shadow-eating, which is 4->5 pretty much I think.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 24 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @wminshew

      Beyond that, there is drinking the sun. Maybe that’s still part of 4->5, but I haven’t completed it. I think it may be beyond 5, but Kegan didn’t talk about what’s beyond 5 if anything.https://buddhism-for-vampires.com/drinking-the-sun …

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 24 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @wminshew

      Some other people have written about stages beyond 5… but I haven’t found their stuff convincing. It may not matter in practice… except possibly inasmuch as, to teach a stage transition, you may need to be meta to it… which would mean 6… whatever that is… probably nonsense

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. will minshew‏ @wminshew 10 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness

      was re-reading @C_Harwick's post recently on how the meta-level doesn't justify itself (https://cameronharwick.com/blog/the-meta-level-doesnt-justify-itself/ …) and this conversation came to mind. Stage 6 seems impossible to me, but that's also to be expected I think. Stage 5 seemed impossible, once, too. /shrug

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      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 10 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @wminshew @C_Harwick

      That’s a good essay, yes! I do have some vague thoughts about stage 6. But even stage 5 is sufficiently rare and difficult to talk about that I’m not sure how useful speculating beyond it is.

      12:14 PM - 10 Jun 2018
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