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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 1 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel

      Good heavens. Have philosophers never read about how Bayes nets work? Uncertain observations are technology at this point; you send up a non-extreme lambda message. (And this doesn't even violate probability theorems qua theorems, as so many approximations understandably do.)

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 1 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @Meaningness @ArtirKel

      And I say this to illustrate a larger dichotomy: naive toolboxers see a problem and think they've discovered a context in which to not use that tool. Sophisticated thinkers who have Lawful thinking as an option are much more likely to wonder if the generalization still holds.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 1 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel

      “Naive Toolboxer” seems analogous to Straw Vulcan here.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 1 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel

      Absolutely. Sophisticated thinkers can conceive of both context-dependent recipes and universal generalizations. They are ready to adapt tools as required, and expect to repair laws without compromising them. But Straw Vulcans exist in real life, and so do naive toolboxers.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 1 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel

      Okay… we agree that it is possible to fail to apply rational methods when they would be useful, and some people may make that mistake often.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 1 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel

      That's still Toolbox thinking! There are perspectives on life besides whether some recipe would be useful at a given moment!

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    7. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 1 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel

      Yes, you are right. Let me amend the previous tweet to “framework” from “method.” This may be revealing, as you are arguing. 1/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 1 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel

      I do understand the object-level distinction between mathematical frameworks and specific methods. However, at the meta-rational level, frameworks are themselves just methods, because they are not universally applicable. 2/3

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 1 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel

      So the object-level distinction between frameworks and methods is not as salient for me as it is for you. 3/3

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 1 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel

      One factor distinguishing the Lawful metatool is the expectation of hidden, nonobvious simplicity and generality. If Jaynes had possessed *more* faith in probability, he might have been more likely to extend it to non-omnisicient distributions on quantified sentences.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 1 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel

      Well, that’s very interesting, and makes sense! I definitely do not have an expectation of hidden simplicity. Perhaps that fundamental prior is what distinguishes our worldviews.

      11:25 AM - 1 Jun 2018
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        2. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 1 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel

          My own big contribution to decision theory was logical decision theory, which replaced a huge number of complicated patches to the "fatal" objection of Newcomb's Problem with a simple, unified view. Because I knew it couldn't possibly *actually* be the case that the...

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        3. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 1 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @ESYudkowsky @Meaningness @ArtirKel

          ...basic decision principle was this big weird loopy structure containing lots of exceptions and complications and where the meta-level wasn't consistent with the object level and so on. I knew that had to be humans making mistakes and missing the obvious.https://arbital.com/p/logical_dt/ 

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