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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      Suppose I then suggested that adopting any number of purposes and object distinguishers will nail down this core subsystem surprisingly hard. To the point that alien systems probably agree with ours not only about 2 + 2, but about formulae with no practical use like 85378^397642.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      I agree that math is a domain in which absolute truth applies. (Modulo maybe stuff like the independence of the continuum hypothesis, but let’s ignore that.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      Okay. What about "absolute" systems that cast nonabsolute prescriptive recipes as shadows, like "try counting digits and adding to estimate the product to within a couple of orders of magnitude"?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      That particular example is just true, isn’t it? (Arithmetic isn’t my strong suit)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      It'll actually end up being an overestimate. 20 * 20 * 20 ~ 10000 not 100000.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      Oh, I was thinking about multiplying just two numbers. I guess I don’t follow your question about shadows and so on. If you’re talking about products of any number of numbers, this rule is useless. Maybe we can think of a better example of a roughly-right heuristic.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      It's in fact useful for eye-checking many sets of numbers we multiply in practice. It tells us ordering 37 of a $16 product should not cost $100,000 like the computer says, even if you can't do the arithmetic in your head.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @Meaningness and

      You need to understand the right context in which to use this tool, and its limits, and not take the recipe as an absolute, and check the results against common sense and reality.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      OK, this is great—that’s exactly what I’m calling “meta-rational judgement”! My thesis is that you always need to do that when applying rational methods, and there’s skillsets for doing that, and those tend to be neglected, and it would be good to help people learn them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      Threading is a nightmare here. See my continuing reply. "Decision theory" isn't the adding-digits recipe, it's the more abstract idea of Peano arithmetic that helps us understand when the recipe might fail or succeed, even though applying the Peano axioms is way too laborious.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      OK, another attempt at finding a crux. For you, decision theory is THE TRUE framework, according to which any practical method must be judged. For me, it’s just one bit of math among many, with no special value.

      9:31 PM - 28 May 2018
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        2. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 28 May 2018
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          Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel @juliagalef

          I'm not sure what you mean by "THE TRUE" here. I'm tempted to reply with https://arbital.com/p/expected_utility_formalism/?l=7hh … to explain what makes this math so specially relevant to decision-making and belief, but I have a dark presentiment that's not what you mean.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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          Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel @juliagalef

          I’ve just now read the first bit of that, which is the Dutch Book Argument, so we’re back to where we started… maybe twitter needs a circular thread mechanism :)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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