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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @ArtirKel @ESYudkowsky @juliagalef

      “Objectively best” assuming a set of axioms is satisfied. There can sometimes be a bait-and-switch or motte-and-bailey here when you try to apply this to a concrete real-world situation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. José Luis Ricón (Artir)‏ @ArtirKel 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ESYudkowsky @juliagalef

      Do you have a specific example in mind?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @ArtirKel @ESYudkowsky @juliagalef

      Well, to get decision theory to apply, you have to characterize the situation in terms of a set of well-defined actions, well-defined outcomes, well-defined goodnesses, and you need some meaningful way of estimating probabilities. None of those are objectively given.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      This example isn't analogous but I'm curious how you'd reply to a student saying, "The notion of 'objectively true sentences' is wrong and can't be rescued, because words don't have culturally independent meanings and there's no Objective Teacher to grade answers as correct."

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      This has several moving parts, so it’s a bit complicated. First, there is no clear definition of “objective” or “objectively true,” as far as I have been able to discover. There are several pretty different uses that are all quite vague.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ESYudkowsky and

      Under some reasonable interpretations of “objectively true,” there aren’t any outside math and possibly QFT. Under some other reasonable interpretations, lots of things are objectively true. Lots of arguments founder on this contrast.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      Suppose I suggested you can have a distinguishable solid subsystem of a fuzzy system. Distinguishing objects in the environment is fuzzy, assigning meaning to "three" is fuzzy, but once counting and naming is done, the arithmetic subsystem is locally quite solid.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      Yes! Rationality works, when it does, because somehow inferences within the mathematical system turn out to be true-enough in the real world.

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    9. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ESYudkowsky and

      This is tricky, because rational inference preserves absolute truth, but not mostly-truth. For mostly-truth, you have to constantly keep your eye on how, concretely, the system is relating to reality: which can never be “accurately reflects absolute truths.”

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      I should say by definition that what takes true inputs to true outputs is "logic", not "rationality", the latter of which many textbooks will agree is about decision under uncertainty. If you thought "rationality" meant what I'd call "logic", no wonder there is confusion.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @ArtirKel @juliagalef

      I’m using “rationality” in a quite broad sense as including all of math (including logic and decision theory) and a fair amount else besides.

      8:55 PM - 28 May 2018
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      • against utopia 🏴
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 28 May 2018
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          Replying to @Meaningness @ESYudkowsky and

          That said, doesn’t decision theory take true inputs to true outputs? If you set up a situation as a decision theory problem, decision theory yields a deductively correct answers.

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