Martin Kulldorff on Twitter: "Very helpful Lars. We believe that COVID19 infection affords some immunity, we obviously do not know about long-term immunity, and we do not yet know whether antibodies and T-cells afford similar levels of immunity. Is that a fair summary?… https://t.co/CcnmIJn3Zw"

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Martin Kulldorff‏ @MartinKulldorff 26 Sep 2020

Martin Kulldorff Retweeted Peter Staley

This is weird! @SWAtlasHoover stated the simple fact that immunity is higher than those with antibodies, whereupon Dr. Fauci criticizes him without contradicting what was actually said. Stating a simple scientific fact is not "extraordinarily inappropriate". What is going on?https://twitter.com/peterstaley/status/1309848839621423107 …

Martin Kulldorff added,

1:09

Peter StaleyVerified account @peterstaley

During my interview with Tony Fauci yesterday, I asked him about Scott Atlas's @SWAtlasHoover attempted takedown of @CDCDirector Redfield re how many Americans are still susceptible to #COVID19. Here's my question. /1 Full interview: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CFlEMt8Kg2B/?igshid=168osghuko3uw … pic.twitter.com/qTdATWdwrA

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256 replies 658 retweets 1,813 likes

Leif Erik Sander‏ @Sander_Lab 26 Sep 2020

Replying to @MartinKulldorff @SWAtlasHoover

Dear @MartinKulldorff Yes, we need open discourse. But the reports @SWAtlasHoover references (one of which we published) describe T cell cross-*reactivity* NOT cross-immunity. To equate cross-reactive T cells with immunity to SARS-CoV-2 is unfounded & simply false at this point

4 replies 3 retweets 34 likes

Leif Erik Sander‏ @Sander_Lab 26 Sep 2020

Replying to @Sander_Lab @MartinKulldorff @SWAtlasHoover

And to state that "antibodies make a small fraction of the people that have immunity" is also unfounded. There is zero evidence that cross-reactive T cells provide protection (i.e. immunity). This claim is not supported by the science he references.

5 replies 1 retweet 7 likes

Peter Staley‏Verified account @peterstaley 26 Sep 2020

Replying to @Sander_Lab @MartinKulldorff @SWAtlasHoover

Thank you for explaining why this entire subthread is based on Kulldorff's false assumption. That's how Atlas rolls.

1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes

Martin Kulldorff‏ @MartinKulldorff 26 Sep 2020

Replying to @peterstaley @Sander_Lab @SWAtlasHoover

Hi Peter. Can you help explain? Is it only those with antibodies that are immune, or is the number higher than that? Atlas claims the latter. Fauci did not contradict that in the interview. Is the disagreement whether it is higher or how much higher?

2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes

Leif Erik Sander‏ @Sander_Lab 26 Sep 2020

Replying to @MartinKulldorff @peterstaley @SWAtlasHoover

I agree that measuring antibodies doesn't tell the full story w/ regards to exposure, the true number is likely higher. But the claims were about immunity (=protection). At this point *nobody* knows who is "immune" & for how long. Neutralizing antibodies are the closest measure

2 replies 0 retweets 1 like

Martin Kulldorff‏ @MartinKulldorff 26 Sep 2020

Replying to @Sander_Lab @peterstaley @SWAtlasHoover

OK, there is agreement that number exposed > number with antibodies. So, the disagreement is whether exposure without antibodies generate protection? If not, one would think that we would have seen many reinfections by now. What do you think? I am really appreciating your help.

1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes

Leif Erik Sander‏ @Sander_Lab 26 Sep 2020

Replying to @MartinKulldorff @peterstaley @SWAtlasHoover

Yes! We're trying to gather more data on re-infections. I do believe that infection affords (transient?) immunity. What about those with low antibodies but reactive T cells? I think we have not been able to actually look carefully yet.

2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes

Martin Kulldorff‏ @MartinKulldorff 26 Sep 2020

Replying to @Sander_Lab @peterstaley @SWAtlasHoover

Very helpful Lars. We believe that COVID19 infection affords some immunity, we obviously do not know about long-term immunity, and we do not yet know whether antibodies and T-cells afford similar levels of immunity. Is that a fair summary?

11:52 AM - 26 Sep 2020

6 Likes

1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes

1. Leif Erik Sander‏ @Sander_Lab 26 Sep 2020
  Replying to @MartinKulldorff @peterstaley @SWAtlasHoover
  
  pretty much, yes.
  
  2 likes
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