Nup not going to do it! :)
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Replying to @ali_readhead @CarterPaddy and
Nope me neither Paddy! I think the point is 0 profit in early years looks OK. Gets more
as mine gets older. But then commodity price volatility etc can push back into losses. And '0 tax bill' may not mean losses but result of carried interest as w Oyu Tolgoi2 replies 0 retweets 1 like -
Replying to @MForstater @ali_readhead and
Yes yes yes it's all very complicated but 1. If the difference between genuine losses and profit shifting is so fundamentally unknowable then the whole endeavour is meaningless and we might as well never speak of it again and ...
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Replying to @CarterPaddy @MForstater and
... there's nothing wrong with taking an average over a heterogeneous population, nor can I believe you literary have no prior concerning the prevalence of bad practice.
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Replying to @CarterPaddy @ali_readhead and
Nah its just the wrong question. Eg a mining Co can have legitimate zero profits in a year, but might still be be overstating costs (... which will have impact on taxes at some point down the road).
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Replying to @MForstater @ali_readhead and
That's just complicating the ways in which things can work. The end result is N observation of reported losses. What % genuine. You're only being asked to choose one of 4 buckets.
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Replying to @CarterPaddy @MForstater and
Imagine an omniscient God produced the answer. Your options are 1 claim God couldn't, in which case I expect to see you never use the word profit again other than to argue it's an empty concept, or 2 say you can't guess, in which case I expect to see you never raise an eyebrow ..
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Replying to @CarterPaddy @MForstater and
I could make a guess, but absent specific and detailed data it would be no more than that. My guess would be that any company reporting more than 5 consecutive years of losses should be investigated further.
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Replying to @hselftax @MForstater and
The point of eliciting guesses is 1. To aid understanding of what lies between disagreements and 2. To provide benchmarks so to people know if evidence emerges that contradicts their priors.
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Replying to @CarterPaddy @hselftax and
OK Paddy I’m going to try to demonstrate why I don’t think this question is all that meaningful (or at least why if you ever have an audience with an omniscient god it would be a waste to ask her this one…) (1/)
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Lets look at Oyu Tolgoi mine in Mongolia for example (Playing with @Open_Oil ‘s model http://openoil.net/oyu-tolgoi-model-and-narrative-report/ … ) (2/)
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Replying to @MForstater @CarterPaddy and
The tax line in their base case model looks like this. There are 27 (out of 55) years with no pre-tax profit, and 43 years where no cash CIT is paid. (overall the government’s share is 57% of net cash flows including all revenues)pic.twitter.com/HTPy321PFk
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Replying to @MForstater @CarterPaddy and
So what you are asking is if we point at a single year when the mine has a loss ‘what is the chance that this is legitimate and what is the chance that it is based on profit shifting?’ (4/)
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