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MForstater's profile
Maya Forstater
Maya Forstater
Maya Forstater
@MForstater

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Maya Forstater

@MForstater

Business and sustainable development. Accountability. Tax. Feminist test case. Media: Tom Gardner at Slater & Gordon 0207 657 1690 press@slatergordon.co.uk

https://medium.com/@MForstater
hiyamaya.net
Joined September 2008

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    1. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @MForstater @GoodyActually and

      Depends what you mean. How offensive the words used are is determined by their objective meaning (to whihc context is crucial). How offensive the hearer finds something concerns their degree of subjective upset.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Rebecca Bull‏ @elletorrito Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @SpinningHugo @MForstater and

      The weight given to perception of offence should depend on what is reasonable in the circumstances. Women’s rights have been painted as bigotry and institutions gas-lit into removing them. Taking offence when women re-instate the basis of their rights is unreasonable.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    3. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @elletorrito @MForstater and

      Assuming, arguendo, that the offence is wholly unreasonable, all other things being equal, if a view can be expressed in way that causes less upset, that is what should be done (though as a matter of law there should be freedom to cause as much upset as you like).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Helen Joyce‏Verified account @HJoyceGender Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @SpinningHugo @elletorrito and

      Fine. There isn't such a way. The word 'woman' is gone and the word 'female' is compromised. ANY statement other than 'trans women are women full stop' is called hate speech. We're saying it the only way possible. NOT creating upset for upset's sake.

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
    5. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @HJoyceGender @elletorrito and

      I think it obviously false that the way express gender critical ideas are expressed cannot be more or less offensive.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Helen Joyce‏Verified account @HJoyceGender Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @SpinningHugo @elletorrito and

      Literally. Any. Statement. Of. Gender. Critical. Ideas. Is. Called. Hate. Speech. I have pointed out that men are on average stronger than women and been told I’m a bigot. I know YOU see a difference, but activists and the police don’t. 1/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
    7. Helen Joyce‏Verified account @HJoyceGender Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @HJoyceGender @SpinningHugo and

      I mean you presumably see a difference between ‘woman: adult human female’ and the other sticker? The activists and police don’t. And the adult human female one is the most anodyne possible statement of the GC position!!

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @HJoyceGender @elletorrito and

      As far as the police should be concerned there should be no difference at all. They're both lawful, and they shouldn't be wasting their time investigating non-existent offences.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Helen Joyce‏Verified account @HJoyceGender Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @SpinningHugo @elletorrito and

      I meant they see each as equally offensive, which is what we’re now discussing here. They refused to tell @jameskirkup what EITHER sticker said because they were BOTH too terrible to repeat. You think we GCs can ‘offend less’; I’m telling you we can’t

      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    10. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @HJoyceGender @elletorrito and

      "Offensiveness" has two senses: the objective meaning of the words and the subjective upset caused to the hearer. I don't accept that how we express ideas has no relation to the degree of offence in either sense.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @SpinningHugo @elletorrito and

      You are arguing for a set of principles which none of those arguing with you dispute: that expressing things in clear non-pejorative terms is objectively less offensive than being insulting, and that good faith efforts at dialogue with mutual respect is the way to resolve things.

      2:53 AM - 16 Oct 2019
      • 2 Likes
      • Helen Joyce Imogen G
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 16
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @MForstater @elletorrito and

          Great. If we're all in furious agreement with what I've said I'm happy.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Oct 16
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @SpinningHugo @elletorrito and

          Where we are in disagreement is whether there is a way of making the GC argument would be deemed as inoffensive by those who are offended by the stickers and would cut through to land of mutually respectful dialogue (just don't think that it hasn't been found for lack of trying)

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. 7 more replies
        1. Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Oct 16
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @MForstater @SpinningHugo and

          It is not 100s of women have not tried this (and continue to try this) every which way, putting a lot more on the line than you have and a lot more effort into understanding the issues. Yet you feel able to pronounce that those stickering are behaving badly for 'no good purpose'

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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