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MForstater's profile
Maya Forstater
Maya Forstater
Maya Forstater
@MForstater

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Maya Forstater

@MForstater

Business and sustainable development. Accountability. Tax. Feminist test case. Media: Tom Gardner at Slater & Gordon 0207 657 1690 press@slatergordon.co.uk

https://medium.com/@MForstater
hiyamaya.net
Joined September 2008

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    1. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @HJoyceGender @AlessandraAster and

      You're quite wrong. My original post was about freedom of speech in law and justice. I didn't want to get into the substantive question, which played no part in the argument.

      5 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Alessandra Asteriti‏ @AlessandraAster Oct 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @SpinningHugo @MForstater and

      For you. This is similar to a white male saying he does not want to get involved in the substantive argument against racism to a room of black people, that he is only interested whether racists have freedom of speech (or even, blacks). You can expect the reaction.

      1 reply 0 retweets 21 likes
    3. Helen Joyce‏Verified account @HJoyceGender Oct 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @AlessandraAster @SpinningHugo and

      It’s also Just. Not. True. Several tweets were dedicated to the immorality and unpleasantness of what women were saying, before the ‘defend to the death your right to say it’ bit. What we’re saying isn’t nasty! It’s essential!! Independently of our rights to free speech!!!

      1 reply 0 retweets 51 likes
    4. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @HJoyceGender @AlessandraAster and

      But, again, that was not the argument. Indeed if there was nothing offensive about the stickers my argument goes through a fortiori. Those stickering should have the freedom to do so and the police are mistaken.

      5 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Alessandra Asteriti‏ @AlessandraAster Oct 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @SpinningHugo @MForstater and

      Again. By your argument the Oxford dictionary is offensive. Biological facts are not offensive. Gravity is not offensive. 2+3=5 is not offensive. Adult woman female is not offensive. And the context is not oh poor trans. The context is millions of women die because of biology.

      1 reply 0 retweets 23 likes
    6. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @AlessandraAster @MForstater and

      This is where we started. No, context matters. Saying "you're fat." may be (a) true and (b) inoffensive in most contexts. That doesn't mean it is inoffensive in all contexts, meaning not being a matter of dictionaries.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Anders in Vienna‏ @amglarson Oct 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @SpinningHugo @AlessandraAster and

      I appreciate the argument, but in this context saying "I reject that you get to redefine what I am" isnt quite the same as saying "you eat too much pie".

      1 reply 0 retweets 17 likes
    8. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @amglarson @AlessandraAster and

      And nobody claimed that they were, I was explaining how a statement of fact can be offensive.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Oct 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @SpinningHugo @amglarson and

      Hugo. This is the point. The people who find the stickers offensive (not trans people but people who see the GC view as offensive) find it offensive in *every* context. So by your formula the moral thing for GC people to do is stay quiet to avoid giving offense.

      2 replies 0 retweets 30 likes
    10. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @MForstater @amglarson and

      That doesn't follow, no. I think gender critical views can be expressed in a non-offensive way, and that even if they cannot, there is no moral imperative to always restrain from doing anything that offends other people.

      4 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Oct 16
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @SpinningHugo @amglarson and

      Can you point me to an example? i.e. A person writing careful long form gender critical arguments, who is not facing loud accusations of being offensive, combined with calls for them to lose their job, not be published, not be invited to speak etc...

      12:19 AM - 16 Oct 2019
      • 4 Likes
      • Anniex Gary Marshall-Stevens d f Zetetic Elench
      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. SpinningHugo‏ @SpinningHugo Oct 16
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @MForstater @amglarson and

          That doesn't follow. If it is true that all gender critical views are denounced by some as offensive, there are still more and less offensive ways of expressing such views, and all other things being equal we should all try to cause the least upset.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Zetetic Elench‏ @ZeteticEl Oct 16
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @SpinningHugo @MForstater and

          But if there is great offence taken to both, it suggests that what offence is taken to is primarily not the mode of expression but the message.

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Oct 16
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @MForstater @SpinningHugo and

          I don't know how closely u have been following this, but I can point you to examples of the converse eg: @Docstockk who writes careful, compassionate articles & is judged too offensive by other philosophers to be on a page together https://link.medium.com/9MWKxm9iP0  https://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2019/09/zealots-working-overtime-now-to-shut-down-gender-critical-feminists.html …

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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