Of course that doesn't matter. My claim is that this is lawful, and ought to be, regardless of whether its sole purpose is to mindlessly offend.
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Replying to @SpinningHugo
Right. I know it doesn't matter for yr conclusion, but still along the way say that the context is 'to offend', when in fact the context is serious legal & policy changes which affect women's rights. The morality answer is not as clear cut as you present! https://euppublishing.com/doi/full/10.3366/scot.2019.0284 …
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Replying to @MForstater
Maybe, but as you can see I have no interest (at least for these purposes) in that question. I am interested in the justice of banning offensive words, not the question of who is right and who is wrong on the substantive question (which I think is irrelevant here).
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Replying to @SpinningHugo
Fair enough. But that is not what the thread says. The thread comes to definite moral conclusions rather than remaining agnostic, and saying that moral conclusions don't matter here in any case.
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Replying to @MForstater @SpinningHugo
As far as I understand your argument you are making the point that even though it was morally wrong to place the stickers it is not criminal. The fact that you see it as morally wrong (or don't really care) offends those of us who think such actions are important.
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Replying to @AmandaGosling3 @MForstater
I don't care for the purpose of my argument no. The stickers should not be criminalised and the police are mistaken. If the stickers are not offensive (and I have transwomen in my timeline arguing strongly that they are offended) the issue I wished to address doesn't arise.
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Replying to @SpinningHugo @AmandaGosling3
(I no this doesn't matter for your conclusion) but aren't you conflating 'considered offensive by some people' with 'morally wrong'. I mean some people consider this offensive. But is it morally wrong?pic.twitter.com/rvqAdyTcru
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Replying to @MForstater @AmandaGosling3
Deliberately offending people for no good reason is morally wrong I think. The problem with the stickers was that they didn't carry any of the reasons why someone might object to self-identification.
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But the moral question is harder than both the positive law question, and the justice question of the proper scope of the criminal law. Which are and were my concerns.
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Replying to @SpinningHugo @AmandaGosling3
Yes I agree the moral question is harder. But you gave a strong answer easily 'it is a very bad way to behave' 'it is being done for no good reason' 'it is being done to offend', which are not necessary for your conclusion and which misread the context.
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And the thing is if its not OK make this statement of fact on a sticker because someone will be offended, is it OK to say it in a hospital ward, communal changing, a dormitory, a women's refuge etc...or must the whole world bend to avoid giving offence to one group?
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What if we say it is not intended to offend but rather defend We are defending our right to the one word that distinguishes us from Men-who are biologically adult males It's the scientific language that defines which half of the binary we are, there is no other word that does.
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All of which is fine. My thread is about what the threshold of criminalisation ought to be.
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