Maya Forstater

No I am saying most men & women if they wear "gender neutral" clothing that is neither coded male or female and they do nothing in terms of adopting a hairstyle, makeup, or other external cues are still correctly read as their sex

And because they are correctly read as their sex, people apply gendered expectations (eg of who can be pushed around, talked over, sexually objectified etc) But it's not based on what a woman wears!

Whether you are read as a woman or man actually depends v much on what you wear. I've been asked, when walking through Soho if I was "interested in a girl Sir?" I've been hit on by older gay men calling me a "nice young man". Has this happened to you in jeans & a boxy tee shirt?

No it hasn't (at least since puberty I've not been mistaken for a boy). But presumably it would happen to a man wearing the same outfit. So how can it be clothes that are what mark me out as female?

Why don't you try cutting your hair short & dressing in neutral clothing & see if in a queue one morning or getting on the bus you ever get misread & called Sir. Many women tell me that non compliance with femininity means ppl are often unsure of them or pronouns.

Thanks. I've had long hair & short hair and I generally live in jeans and a hoodie when not at work. I used to get called "sonny" etc as a preteen, but never since puberty. Conversely my two teenage sons have similar hair to me, also live in jeans & hoodie, never get called miss

I've had very short hair on and off over the years - even going out with no make-up, jeans, neutral top, gym shoes I was never, or at most vanishingly rarely and fleetingly, not read as a woman.

That's interesting that's your experience. Mine has been different.