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MForstater's profile
Maya Forstater
Maya Forstater
Maya Forstater
@MForstater

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Maya Forstater

@MForstater

Business and sustainable development. Accountability. Tax. Feminist test case. Media: Tom Gardner at Slater & Gordon 0207 657 1690 press@slatergordon.co.uk

https://medium.com/@MForstater
hiyamaya.net
Joined September 2008

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    1. Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Finn_Mackay @citizencath and

      Most women if they put on, say, jeans and a plain boxy t-shirt, without make up or hair styling are immediately recognisable as women. Its not "gendered presentation" that is being read, but they are still subject to gendered expectations.

      3 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
    2. Dr Finn Mackay‏ @Finn_Mackay Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @MForstater @citizencath and

      That's your experience. I'm routinely read as a young man or as a what's that. I'm female. I think you really underestimate how rigid gender norms are & how quickly ppl make snap judgements about others based on v basic stereotypical outward gender cues.

      2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
    3. Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Finn_Mackay @citizencath and

      Yes I agree people make snap judgements based on gender norms. But my point is people also read sex (and then bundle it up with gendered expectations) in the absence of *any* external gendered clothing cues...

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    4. Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @MForstater @Finn_Mackay and

      ... So the idea that women who are routinely read as female, must be putting on a some external form of gendered expression also does not work.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Dr Finn Mackay‏ @Finn_Mackay Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @MForstater @citizencath and

      You are saying that some/all women don't put on an external form of gendered presentation? What is femininity then? Why do so many women talk of how they feel pressured to express femininity outwardly through gendered appearance?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Finn_Mackay @citizencath and

      No I am saying most men & women if they wear "gender neutral" clothing that is neither coded male or female and they do nothing in terms of adopting a hairstyle, makeup, or other external cues are still correctly read as their sex

      2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    7. Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @MForstater @Finn_Mackay and

      And because they are correctly read as their sex, people apply gendered expectations (eg of who can be pushed around, talked over, sexually objectified etc) But it's not based on what a woman wears!

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
    8. Dr Finn Mackay‏ @Finn_Mackay Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @MForstater @citizencath and

      Whether you are read as a woman or man actually depends v much on what you wear. I've been asked, when walking through Soho if I was "interested in a girl Sir?" I've been hit on by older gay men calling me a "nice young man". Has this happened to you in jeans & a boxy tee shirt?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Finn_Mackay @citizencath and

      No it hasn't (at least since puberty I've not been mistaken for a boy). But presumably it would happen to a man wearing the same outfit. So how can it be clothes that are what mark me out as female?

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    10. Dr Finn Mackay‏ @Finn_Mackay Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @MForstater @citizencath and

      Gender is a system to make sex rank unequivocal & obvious. Many on this thread are saying femininity is a straitjacket women are forced to wear. Clothing does mark ppl as female, the sound of high heels, long hair, as Feminists have argued these are signs, & targets.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Maya Forstater‏ @MForstater Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Finn_Mackay @citizencath and

      for almost all women almost all of the time it is obvious, that they are female, and gendered expectations that they are lesser are imposed on them because of this. Its not BECAUSE of what they are wearing.

      4:40 AM - 14 Apr 2019
      • 5 Likes
      • Jenny North Lucy HunterBlackburn CK Paradoxology Swansea&Gower ReSisters  #WomenStandUp
      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
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        2. Lucy HunterBlackburn‏ @LucyHunterB Apr 14
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @MForstater @Finn_Mackay and

          Worth noting that what’s on offer as the alternative to being taken as F is being mistaken for M by adopting masculine norms. The escape route, insofar as it exists for some, is then rejection of things associated with being female. “Gender neutral” clothes mean in essence male/

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Dr Finn Mackay‏ @Finn_Mackay Apr 14
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          Replying to @MForstater @citizencath and

          I'm not saying sexism in patriarchy is caused by clothes. But femininity is partly to mark women out clearly, & partly to oppress & subdue women. These are core feminist arguments, rejecting outward gender norms for appearance was also a key part of the personal being political.

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Rachel Moles‏ @rachel__julia Apr 14
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @Finn_Mackay @MForstater and

          With respect, I think your experience is highly unusual. For the majority of women we would not be able to do anything (aside from prosthetics or surgery) that would result in our being perceived as anything other than female.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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