If you define interventions only as things that a single individual could change while living in the current system, then that's true yeah. But that's usually not what people mean when they discuss policy and the fact that heritability is specific to certain environs
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Replying to @rubenarslan @mendel_random
The original claim is about policy proposals, which typically propose policies which look like previously tested interventions, which have net effects as implemented in the real world of ~0 (cf the Metallic Laws), and do not look like 'let's re-enact Mao's Great Famine'.
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Replying to @gwern @rubenarslan
Daniel Weissman Retweeted Ruben C. Arslan
I think you may have misread the original claimhttps://twitter.com/rubenarslan/status/1176507531335745536?s=21 …
Daniel Weissman added,
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Replying to @dbweissman @rubenarslan
𝔊𝔴𝔢𝔯𝔫 Retweeted george davey smith
Not in the least. Look at https://twitter.com/mendel_random/status/1176149338717917184 … It's the same motte-and-bailey as ever. 'Policy interventions fail, especially with high heritability.' 'Ah, but heritability doesn't mean immutability - we could *imagine* interventions which do work! Check and mate.'
𝔊𝔴𝔢𝔯𝔫 added,
george davey smith @mendel_randomA ludicrous comment - childhood obesity has a larger genetic component than educational performance, but the increase over time in childhood obesity shows how much it can be influenced by the environment. Heritability says little about what interventions could achieve https://twitter.com/CharlotteCGill/status/1175814102834397184 …3 replies 1 retweet 6 likes -
Replying to @gwern @dbweissman
Try being a bit more charitable. We have observed, in his lifetime, large changes in obesity rates, that were environmentally caused. I can imagine interventions that would reverse it. It's not motte and bailey if I am consistent in my beliefs about size and scope needed.
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Does this apply to the area of education, where many more interventions have been trialled? Unclear, but some see the Flynn effect as providing a similar heuristic. Clearly, the obesity epidemic was caused by changes in developmental noise, so don't go too easy on your own case.
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Replying to @rubenarslan @dbweissman
Let's try it this way. If high heritability is irrelevant, and 'environment' so easily modified, then it should be easy for you to name 3 examples of traits with high heritabilities (say >=0.8, like height or intelligence), which have been solved by standard policies. Can you?
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Replying to @gwern @dbweissman
The metallic laws aren't the final word and
@drewhalbailey thoughts on sustaining environments in combination with@JProtzko's findings on fadeout make me think there's stones left unturned. It isn't crazy to assert that genetic research is simply further ahead than interventions1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes -
Replying to @rubenarslan @gwern and
Especially when we have clear evidence of environmentally driven change in the real world, even if it wasn't planned by academic scientists.
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Replying to @rubenarslan @gwern and
Nations adding iodine to table salt on increasing population level intelligence (through reducing deficiencies causing intellectual delays) is a great example of this.
2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
Any large RCTs on iodine in water treatment in Africa? My prior on these claims is very negative these days. E.g., recently, I read those 1960s civil rights reports and these cite massive experiments on social policies, busing and similar, stuff, all negative and uncited today.
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