Kevin Simler

@sarahdoingthing why is it cruel? Don't they need a self?

@cathodion if it were so great a thing to have, why such a high value on losing it? ;) (& of course pre-1700 it's the root of evil)

@cathodion the individual self as the core of morality and goodness is a very modern madness - collective selves are not so awful to bear

@sarahdoingthing well, since I am an individual self, I supposed I'm biased toward selfhood. Though it's nice to get lost once in a while.

@cathodion indeed - it's a very eloquent advocate for itself, despite its many harms

@sarahdoingthing good point. I'll just stand by for assimilation.

@cathodion @sarahdoingthing Sarah, how self-less do you think pre-modern people were?

@KevinSimler it's complicated - I certainly don't think they were "selfless" in the sense of saints, but group identities and morality...