Correct, the basics of what I advocate are frustratingly hard to communicate in this medium, doubly so when there are many who use similar language to opposite ends (for example, using "exploitation" in moral terms).
-
-
Replying to @JonasKyratzes
Okay but if you mean a purely functional version of the word “exploit” then the employee is also exploiting the employer, so, I still don’t get it.
2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes -
Replying to @Jonathan_Blow
I mean it in the Marxist sense; the worker produces value, a part of which the employer takes. Maximizing the amount that is kept is a logical consequence of the profit motive, particularly once everything else has been squeezed as far as it can be.
1 reply 0 retweets 1 like -
Replying to @JonasKyratzes
Yeah, but "the worker produces value, a part of which the employer takes" is exactly what I am saying is conceptually incorrect.
1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes -
Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @JonasKyratzes
If workers can just produce value like that, then they would just sit around at home and produce value and keep most of it. Some people do manage to do this, though it's a small fraction of the population!
2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes -
Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @JonasKyratzes
workers don’t own the resources to produce value on their own. you have to have means of production... "workers" refers to a class of people who have no choice but to sell their labor
1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes -
Replying to @pumbertop @Jonathan_Blow
Correct. That's what defines a worker - their relationship to the means of production. (The people who can produce their own value, like artists, are technically not workers, though this gets very complicated under current conditions.)
2 replies 0 retweets 1 like -
Replying to @JonasKyratzes @pumbertop
This idea of “the means of production” being like some big assembly line or something, and that this being kept out of peoples’ hands is the problem, is shown to be plainly false in the modern environment, where the “means of production” is, like, typing on a computer.
3 replies 0 retweets 5 likes -
The actual main thing, that most individuals do not manage because it is hard, is *knowing what to do at any given time*. That is what gets companies to a point where they can actually produce value, and usually it is very hard to get a company there and keep it there over time.
2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes -
Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @pumbertop
No amount of knowing what to do will help if you have no capital to begin with. Unless you are very lucky, and things align just right. But that is very rare, and not representative of what most people's lives are like.
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
Knowing how to get people to give you capital (because you convince the lender they will probably get it back) is part of knowing what to do generally. And most companies have to do this, they don’t just magically have capital because they are companies.
-
-
Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @pumbertop
This is where the discussion becomes tricky because we're going in two directions at once, one being how easy or hard it is to succeed, and another the nature of ownership in the current economic system.
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likesThanks. Twitter will use this to make your timeline better. UndoUndo
-
Loading seems to be taking a while.
Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information.