Correct, the basics of what I advocate are frustratingly hard to communicate in this medium, doubly so when there are many who use similar language to opposite ends (for example, using "exploitation" in moral terms).
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Replying to @JonasKyratzes
Okay but if you mean a purely functional version of the word “exploit” then the employee is also exploiting the employer, so, I still don’t get it.
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Replying to @Jonathan_Blow
I mean it in the Marxist sense; the worker produces value, a part of which the employer takes. Maximizing the amount that is kept is a logical consequence of the profit motive, particularly once everything else has been squeezed as far as it can be.
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Replying to @JonasKyratzes
Yeah, but "the worker produces value, a part of which the employer takes" is exactly what I am saying is conceptually incorrect.
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Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @JonasKyratzes
If workers can just produce value like that, then they would just sit around at home and produce value and keep most of it. Some people do manage to do this, though it's a small fraction of the population!
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Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @JonasKyratzes
workers don’t own the resources to produce value on their own. you have to have means of production... "workers" refers to a class of people who have no choice but to sell their labor
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Replying to @pumbertop @Jonathan_Blow
Correct. That's what defines a worker - their relationship to the means of production. (The people who can produce their own value, like artists, are technically not workers, though this gets very complicated under current conditions.)
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Replying to @JonasKyratzes @pumbertop
This idea of “the means of production” being like some big assembly line or something, and that this being kept out of peoples’ hands is the problem, is shown to be plainly false in the modern environment, where the “means of production” is, like, typing on a computer.
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The actual main thing, that most individuals do not manage because it is hard, is *knowing what to do at any given time*. That is what gets companies to a point where they can actually produce value, and usually it is very hard to get a company there and keep it there over time.
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That knowledge is what enables the company to build a context within which everyone’s work has the value that it does. Outside that context, the value of effort becomes tremendously less because it is not coordinated.
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This is why the labor theory of value is wrong, because it is context and coordination that creates most of the value, not the actual labor per se.
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Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @pumbertop
And without the labour, it never happens. It is the labour that creates and sustains the company - and owning capital is what allows you to purchase that labour. Otherwise you're just another "ideas guy", one out of millions.
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Replying to @JonasKyratzes @pumbertop
Well no. The labor is part of what creates and sustains the company, but if you took away all the knowledge and constant coordination and just had workers and said “okay workers, create and sustain the company”, well, it doesn’t work. The company is gone.
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