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Jonathan_Blow's profile
Jonathan Blow
Jonathan Blow
Jonathan Blow
@Jonathan_Blow

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Jonathan Blow

@Jonathan_Blow

Designer/Programmer of Braid and The Witness. President, Thekla, Inc. Partner in IndieFund. Currently working on good new things.

San Francisco
the-witness.net/news
Joined January 2010

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    1. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 11
      Replying to @codaaaaaaaaa

      Correct. You can see a 2011 legacy explanation from Raymond Chen here: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20110128-00/?p=11643 … In my opinion, none of the things he says are true today, but, I guess this part of the kernel has still not been updated since then? I don't know :(

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    2. Raymond Chen's Tie‏ @ChenCravat May 11
      Replying to @cmuratori @codaaaaaaaaa

      So what would you do if you had to page in a 2MB page when there isn't 2MB of contiguous physical memory?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 11
      Replying to @ChenCravat @codaaaaaaaaa

      I understand that this is apparently a concern, but I'm not sure I understand why. On modern machines that all have 16+gb of memory, is there some reason the OS can't just sub-divide 4k pages from 2mb pages, and evict all 512 4k pages when deciding to swap in a 2mb page?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 11
      Replying to @cmuratori @ChenCravat @codaaaaaaaaa

      That is assuming there are backwards compatibility reasons why you have to keep supporting 4k pages in "compatibility" mode, etc. - I can't honestly see there being a point to 4k pages for the normal case of modern apps that all use literally gigabytes of memory?

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    5. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow May 11
      Replying to @cmuratori @ChenCravat @codaaaaaaaaa

      Also, paging is kind of for chumps anyway? Like, the OS probably has to support it, but you don’t actually want to be doing it ever, so, probably should not design for that as a primary use case.

      2 replies 0 retweets 16 likes
    6.  🌱‏ @codaaaaaaaaa May 12
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @cmuratori @ChenCravat

      Have you got any good ideas on what memory protection without paging might look like, e.g. maybe the ISA lets you specify whole ranges at a time instead of 4k chunks?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 12
      Replying to @codaaaaaaaaa @Jonathan_Blow @ChenCravat

      He's talking about VM paging, not the concept that there are pages. Jon is just saying that designing your paging system around the case where things page in/out is a bad idea, because that case should never happen in perf-centric scenarios (and I agree).

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow May 12
      Replying to @cmuratori @codaaaaaaaaa @ChenCravat

      And, that design made sense back in the 60s-80s when computers were much smaller and you didn't quite expect them to be realtime when doing industrial-scale things. Now we have much more power and would like to use it effectively.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Dan Thompson‏ @tweets_dan May 12
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @cmuratori and

      its not unheard of these days to just straight disable your page file

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Bartosz Nyczkowski‏ @nyczkowski May 13
      Replying to @tweets_dan @Jonathan_Blow and

      Code pages and mapped files will still be paged in. Data pages might have to be zeroed, if zero page list doesn’t have enough of them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow May 13
      Replying to @nyczkowski @tweets_dan and

      You are confusing what needs to be done (loading programs) with a particular implementation centered around the paging system.

      9:37 AM - 13 May 2021
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