I'd take a thousand silly startup ideas for the chance we land on one Wikipedia. Everyone just does what they can. Mechanical sympathy isn't the only way.
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Replying to @david_whitney
Okay, but ... it doesn't actually work. The theory is that the way these things are programmed is a trade-off, you give up efficiency, you get productivity and reliability etc. But productivity and reliability are both extremely low. And the amount of efficiency traded off was
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Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @david_whitney
tremendously higher than claimed. At some point, isn't someone supposed to notice this and question wtf is going on?
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Replying to @Jonathan_Blow
The same spread of productivity and reliability exists in web programming as in all others. We gained a boatload of accessibility on the way though. Fairly sure that most of programming is frequently reflective and this isn't news, there's no prize for being annoyed about it.
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Replying to @david_whitney
I find your first assertion here very difficult to agree with if I just look at the numbers.
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Replying to @Jonathan_Blow
You keep on mentioning "the numbers" and "these things" like stuff on the web is all the same and it really isn't. I get the ire and frustration, but different categories of solutions fit different problem spaces. There's plenty of utilitarian web things that just work.
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Replying to @david_whitney
Like what? I can't think of a single web site that works for me consistently. By "the numbers" I mean, for example, the number of employee-years per unit of functionality implemented, across various fields.
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Replying to @Jonathan_Blow
The implication there is that there's an alternative, non-web, way to implement that same functionality that would somehow magically be better. As if targeting something that isn't the browser is somehow cheaper (which, well, market rates on the app market indicate otherwise).
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Replying to @david_whitney
It would be much better, but not magic, in fact it would have way less magic, in terms of hand-waving blind trust that various barely-known-of layers will somehow do the right thing. Re cheaper, I am not sure what argument you are making there, it seems to be a context switch.
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Replying to @Jonathan_Blow
Re: cheaper - that was in response to person years/unit of function. The web is well known and extensively documented. And standardised, and democratised as a result. If arbitrarily fat clients were more effective and reliable and explicable, everyone would still be doing that.
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No, the popularity is just a matter of ease of access -- you type a web URL and are on the page and don't have to visibly download or install anything. That is fundamentally an ergonomic difference, not a technical one. Users don't like somehow prefer CSS.
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Replying to @Jonathan_Blow
Absolutely agree, but that ease of access is explicitly a design goal of the web, and the reason for it's success. That "just" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The accessibility and ergonomics have value. I don't imagine a user has ever cared *how* something is written.
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Replying to @david_whitney @Jonathan_Blow
I do know that if the authoring experience was somehow better, and more reliable, and equally accessible using other means, people would absolutely adopt it. It's not like technology is ever short on new things to try.
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