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Jonathan_Blow's profile
Jonathan Blow
Jonathan Blow
Jonathan Blow
@Jonathan_Blow

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Jonathan Blow

@Jonathan_Blow

Game designer of Braid and The Witness. Partner in IndieFund.

San Francisco
the-witness.net/news
Joined January 2010

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    1. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      I think you're underestimating the influence of memory safety. In particular, more than avoiding vulnerabilities, it's avoiding aliasing: every bit has a clear owner. The compiler forces you to do that. And that is incredibly helpful. Lemme try to explain what I meanx

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
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      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      Think of a multithreaded system. How do you cooperate between threads? How do you share memory? That is not easy, and more often than not you end up pulling the rug from under some other thread's feet.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      Rust forces you to not do that: only one thread can examine memory that's being modified at one particular time. This is their restriction on aliasing.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
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      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      But how is this useful outside of a multithreaded scope? Well... Think of a library that you're building. Maybe a simulation, given your background on videogames. The more distant two pieces of code are, the least conscious you are of the influence one has over the other.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
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      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      This is just like how two threads are very difficult to understand together. Will you modify _this struct_ somewhere in the simulation, far from this section of code? Who knows. Well, by limiting aliasing you can actually prove that you won't. That's one way Rust prevents bugs :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 26
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      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

      This would be fine if the kind of problem you are describing was responsible for a significant percentage of our bug load. But it isn't.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 26
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      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

      In general this kind of rhetoric you are giving me, I feel, is driven by theoretical ideas, rather than a data-driven approach to how do we minimize software bugs. Which is fine, but then I wish Rust people would admit that, rather than claiming they are addressing correctness.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
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      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      Hmm. But how do you minimize bugs? Have you seen the stdlib? There are data structures there that you don't ever see in C++ because they're so hard to debug.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 26
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      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

      None of this is data driven. If the priority is to minimize bugs, you have to: (1) Take some set of projects in the domain you care about (2) Look at what the bugs were, and how much time it took to address them (3) Classify those bugs into various categories in terms of how

      3 replies 2 retweets 4 likes
    10. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 26
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      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

      they might be approached (4) Rank each category by priority (5) Propose methods for dealing with each category (6) Accurately assess the degree to which each method will really alleviate each bug type (7) Accurately assess the increased costs due to adopting these methods, and

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
      Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 26
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      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

      correctly consider whether those costs outweigh the proposed benefit (8) Formulate some metrics that let you measure (6) and (7) in reality, and compare to your pre-estimates (9) Use 5-8 on some new set of complex projects, seeing how they worked over those projects' lifetimes.

      4:25 PM - 26 Jun 2019
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      • 4 Likes
      • Dr. Nicholas Dwork Ivan Kovatchev ∇ Ivan Braidi
      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
        1. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 26
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          Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

          (10) goto 1

          0 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
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