Skip to content
By using Twitter’s services you agree to our Cookies Use. We and our partners operate globally and use cookies, including for analytics, personalisation, and ads.
  • Home Home Home, current page.
  • About

Saved searches

  • Remove
  • In this conversation
    Verified accountProtected Tweets @
Suggested users
  • Verified accountProtected Tweets @
  • Verified accountProtected Tweets @
  • Language: English
    • Bahasa Indonesia
    • Bahasa Melayu
    • Català
    • Čeština
    • Dansk
    • Deutsch
    • English UK
    • Español
    • Filipino
    • Français
    • Hrvatski
    • Italiano
    • Magyar
    • Nederlands
    • Norsk
    • Polski
    • Português
    • Română
    • Slovenčina
    • Suomi
    • Svenska
    • Tiếng Việt
    • Türkçe
    • Ελληνικά
    • Български език
    • Русский
    • Српски
    • Українська мова
    • עִבְרִית
    • العربية
    • فارسی
    • मराठी
    • हिन्दी
    • বাংলা
    • ગુજરાતી
    • தமிழ்
    • ಕನ್ನಡ
    • ภาษาไทย
    • 한국어
    • 日本語
    • 简体中文
    • 繁體中文
  • Have an account? Log in
    Have an account?
    · Forgot password?

    New to Twitter?
    Sign up
Jonathan_Blow's profile
Jonathan Blow
Jonathan Blow
Jonathan Blow
@Jonathan_Blow

Tweets

Jonathan Blow

@Jonathan_Blow

Game designer of Braid and The Witness. Partner in IndieFund.

San Francisco
the-witness.net/news
Joined January 2010

Tweets

  • © 2019 Twitter
  • About
  • Help Center
  • Terms
  • Privacy policy
  • Imprint
  • Cookies
  • Ads info
Dismiss
Previous
Next

Go to a person's profile

Saved searches

  • Remove
  • In this conversation
    Verified accountProtected Tweets @
Suggested users
  • Verified accountProtected Tweets @
  • Verified accountProtected Tweets @

Promote this Tweet

Block

  • Tweet with a location

    You can add location information to your Tweets, such as your city or precise location, from the web and via third-party applications. You always have the option to delete your Tweet location history. Learn more

    Your lists

    Create a new list


    Under 100 characters, optional

    Privacy

    Copy link to Tweet

    Embed this Tweet

    Embed this Video

    Add this Tweet to your website by copying the code below. Learn more

    Add this video to your website by copying the code below. Learn more

    Hmm, there was a problem reaching the server.

    By embedding Twitter content in your website or app, you are agreeing to the Twitter Developer Agreement and Developer Policy.

    Preview

    Why you're seeing this ad

    Log in to Twitter

    · Forgot password?
    Don't have an account? Sign up »

    Sign up for Twitter

    Not on Twitter? Sign up, tune into the things you care about, and get updates as they happen.

    Sign up
    Have an account? Log in »

    Two-way (sending and receiving) short codes:

    Country Code For customers of
    United States 40404 (any)
    Canada 21212 (any)
    United Kingdom 86444 Vodafone, Orange, 3, O2
    Brazil 40404 Nextel, TIM
    Haiti 40404 Digicel, Voila
    Ireland 51210 Vodafone, O2
    India 53000 Bharti Airtel, Videocon, Reliance
    Indonesia 89887 AXIS, 3, Telkomsel, Indosat, XL Axiata
    Italy 4880804 Wind
    3424486444 Vodafone
    » See SMS short codes for other countries

    Confirmation

     

    Welcome home!

    This timeline is where you’ll spend most of your time, getting instant updates about what matters to you.

    Tweets not working for you?

    Hover over the profile pic and click the Following button to unfollow any account.

    Say a lot with a little

    When you see a Tweet you love, tap the heart — it lets the person who wrote it know you shared the love.

    Spread the word

    The fastest way to share someone else’s Tweet with your followers is with a Retweet. Tap the icon to send it instantly.

    Join the conversation

    Add your thoughts about any Tweet with a Reply. Find a topic you’re passionate about, and jump right in.

    Learn the latest

    Get instant insight into what people are talking about now.

    Get more of what you love

    Follow more accounts to get instant updates about topics you care about.

    Find what's happening

    See the latest conversations about any topic instantly.

    Never miss a Moment

    Catch up instantly on the best stories happening as they unfold.

    1. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      Ah yes, you're using a stricter form of correctness. Let's picture the space of bugs that will probably appear in a program. To me (loose correctness), ensuring correctness is proving that there's a region in that space that you'll never visit. Perfect correctness (yours) is (1/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      great, but afaik is only provable using very much cutting edge technology like Agda, Coq or Idris. Without at least fully dependent types you aren't able to prove that your program has absolutely no bugs. Maybe in 20 years or so that tech will be ergonomic enough for daily use :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

      I am not talking about absolutely no bugs. I am just saying, an approach that is about general correctness, would look very different from an approach that is about memory safety + resource ownership.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

      It's fine, I think it's good that Rust is researching how to do a good job with memory safety + resource ownership without being a managed language. I just wish they would be clearer about what they are doing, and over-promise less.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      How are they over-promising? (Honest question, I'd like to know your POV)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

      It's just distorted rhetoric. Almost none of the bugs we see are memory safety problems or resource deallocation problems. So the amount by which Rust would reduce our bug load is pretty small. So I don't think it can claim that it addresses correctness.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

      There is value in having more confidence that your program is memory-safe, if you are concerned about attackers. (But I also think we should just redesign our operating systems so we are less worried about attackers).

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      I think you're underestimating the influence of memory safety. In particular, more than avoiding vulnerabilities, it's avoiding aliasing: every bit has a clear owner. The compiler forces you to do that. And that is incredibly helpful. Lemme try to explain what I meanx

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      Think of a multithreaded system. How do you cooperate between threads? How do you share memory? That is not easy, and more often than not you end up pulling the rug from under some other thread's feet.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

      Rust forces you to not do that: only one thread can examine memory that's being modified at one particular time. This is their restriction on aliasing.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 26
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

      Right away this limits you to low-performance parallelism, which is another thing I wish people would admit.

      4:08 PM - 26 Jun 2019
      • 1 Like
      • Dr. Nicholas Dwork
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Félix Fischer‏ @FelixFischer91 Jun 26
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

          Yes! And no. You have the unsafe keyword to overrule the compiler, and write abstractions that are efficient and safe that you can prove but the compiler cannot. It really is essential for the stdlib, because the rules of the language are over-restrictive.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Dr. Nicholas Dwork‏ @ndwork Jun 27
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @FelixFischer91 @Jonathan_Blow @obiwanus

          If that's the case, then you can no longer claim that Rust is "correct" or "memory safe". If any user can use "unsafe" and override the restrictions, then you can't assume any module you're calling is correct in any sense. You're left with a slow compiler and incorrect code.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jun 27
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @ndwork @FelixFischer91 @obiwanus

          Sure, but it's a lot better than nothing. I wouldn't harp on them for this, it's a highly pragmatic thing to do, and I think the correct choice.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. End of conversation

      Loading seems to be taking a while.

      Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information.

        Promoted Tweet

        false

        • © 2019 Twitter
        • About
        • Help Center
        • Terms
        • Privacy policy
        • Imprint
        • Cookies
        • Ads info