〈 Berger | Dillon 〉

Documented != a complete description of the "emergent" phenomena. I agree w the Temperature analogy, but even that's bound to be an approximation of the underlying micro and macroscopic properties. Consciousness may be approximated w a var but it is not the way nature does it

@Deepneuron all you can deduce from that negative statement is that consciousness is not well approximated with emergence.. You certainly cant conclude that consciousness affects measurements ..

I'm arguing different things at once haha. That statement has nothing to do with consciousness playing a role in measurement. Like you, I think the problem is significantly deeper. Nature doesn't know that we differentiate between atoms/biology/language/abstract info.

Okay how’s that relevant ? There are differences between all those things just like there are similarities. It’s just different level of abstraction but still consistent and sometimes gives us a deeper understanding of the system.

that's kind of the point, Herbert. Nature doesn't differentiate. nature merely provides the faculties to experience it.

I would prefer to be more quantitative than this.. Information theory is a huge unexplored theory especially when applied to "aware" systems..

Personally, I think defining consciousness to be "that thing which experiences the universe" is vacuous. That's like defining the sun to be "that thing which is bright and in the sky".. if we stopped there we would know almost nothing about the sun

well i more define consciousness as "the faculty of the universe to attend to and experience itself."