Yeah, I think it's a vibe or "cognitive style" thing. Rationalists seem characterized in large part by "autistic" style incredible sensitivity to their own imaginations, hence urgency to save the world, obsession with ex risk, and need for careful thinking / safety.
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Replying to @msutherl @mechanicalmonk1 and
Post-rats have a more 'dissociated' vibe in my experience, or otherwise more likely to be further along the spiritual path.
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Replying to @msutherl @mechanicalmonk1 and
Why is this dissociated vibe a sign of development? I don't think I'm capable of taking ideas as seriously as Eliezer does, of keeping the same single-minded focus, of changing my life and habits by the force of pure reason. But I consider this a weakness, not a sign of progress.
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Really enjoyed the banter up to this point, room for one more? It feels easy to stereotype rats & post-rats when we point at the nebulous/abstract 'concept' of a rat/post-rat (concepts which vary from person to person).
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I think about the rat vs post-rat distinction from an Adult Development Theory perspective. Don't all meta-systematic thinkers emerge from a systematic stage?
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Learning the rationality toolkit seriously up-leveled how I interacted with the world. I became way better at reducing & working with uncertainty, building accurate beliefs, & intentionally acquiring new skills/habits. Then I started to hit limitations...
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Rationality didn't help reconcile my ethics with the different ethics of my friends. It didn't have language to describe We-spaces. It kind of got in the way of certain meditative paths. The only tool that seemed to help was to 'zoom out' and use rationality on the meta-level.
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For me, describing the difference between rats & post-rats is akin to describing elementary students & high-schoolers. Traditional thinkers vs modern thinkers. I'm not sure rats are deciding not to become post rats, that growth seems to happen naturally in certain contexts.
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This brings me back to my recurring issue: I don't see why more expansive practices for introspection aren't necessarily rational, so I don't currently see the point of the distinction. My suspicion is that it's mostly semantics...
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... but because it's been framed as intertribal conflict it seems like a bigger deal than it is. Which is a shame, because if there are tools and practices that come from the "other side," you make it harder for yourself to accept them...
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...In particular, I think the language of 'levels' doesn't help. Telling me you have a new technique or outlook intrigues me, telling me that me or my group is a lower level of intelligence or emotional development is going to lose any sympathy I have! Politics, mind-killer, etc.
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Not you specifically, just thinking in public. Odd tho because you'd think the high-level enlightened people would be the best at not condescending!
Anyway, I'd prefer if we had mostly "how does this work? Could it be better than what we used?" and little "outgroup stinks!"3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes -
> Odd tho because you'd think the high-level enlightened people would be the best at not condescending! this is patronising af while pretending not to be. annoying.
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