Ian DuntVerified account

...provocative behaviour. They deliberately misread all those things as consent. They think of rapists as strangers in the woods...

See that's what they say. But if they woke up and some guy had had sex with them while they slept, they'd know it was rape.

when that happened to me as a teenager, I blamed myself for getting drunk and unconscious. For years, I didn't call it "rape".

To be clear, not an argument for sex ed, which needs to be ramped up w precisely this focus. But that's the place for it.

And v.sorry to hear this by the way.

disagree. Abusive men can convince themselves that what they're doing isn't "really" rape or abuse, only later come to understand.

Never accepted this, but even if true these classes do nothing but patronise others and inadvertently validate rapist excuses

You don't accept it. I'd argue that I've seen it. Interested in how this validates any excuses though?

I know they say it - but don't accept they really don't understand. Classes suggest it's really hard to understand consent.

Your position splits people into binary "normal decent humans" and "rapist bastards" - I think it's sadly far more complicated.

It's obviously not true that all rapist act out of conscious cruelty. Of they course justify actions to themselves in multiple ways

*of course they

Agree with all of this. Just think you're targeting the wrong level. This should happen at 13, not 19.

some of them are both, there's huge amounts of evidence that many rapists have no idea what they did was rape/wrong, scary stuff

yes, but that's stuff you should learn at primary school: don't push weaker kids around, just because you can.