This is all similar to the convo we were having a/b young men getting seduced by the alt-right: I think there's def a way to treat frustrated/angry/lonely young men as human beings deserving of empathy w/o buying into crazy ideas that they "deserve" things other groups don't
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Replying to @jessesingal
Almost every human deserves some empathy (arguably all humans at some point in their lives). But guys we're talking about in general have received too much empathy in their lives & not enough challenge.
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Replying to @HeerJeet
Oh man I really disagree with that. I dipped a toe into incel communities like 6-7 years ago with an eye toward writing about them. These guys do not feel like the object of much empathy. There's some seriously profound darkness there.
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Replying to @jessesingal @HeerJeet
I don't want to wade into the argument of whether these guys are good or bad or deserve more or less empathy. But most of them have extremely severe social and emotional disabilities. Maybe society did it, but they're not an attitude adjustment away from being normal
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Replying to @stephenjudkins @HeerJeet
Right, and I do think that it's interesting that in most cases we'd reject arguments of the form "This group just needs to buck up -- we've gone too soft on them"
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And yet Heer is saying that. So on one hand: "most of them have extremely severe social and emotional disabilities." OTOH Heer thinks "not challenged enough." Good thing he's here to challenge the autistic, socially anxious, etc. >
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I think the confusion just stems from differing interpretations of what group "incel" even refers to. I don't think Jeet is or would argue that mentally ill people need to be "challenged" more.
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Could be - it's certainly one possible interpretation of his statement. but that highlights a further problem: using this word ("incel") to obliterate precisely the distinctions some of you have been making.
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It's the wrong interpretation. We're using word "incel" because that is term these online communities use for themselves. We're not talking about broader population that is sexually marginalized.
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Fair enough, but what I'm saying is that even the online community that calls itself that isn't a monolith; I think it's a significant distortion to treat it as such.
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