Hence Jeet's tweet, making this point. The point of the anti-CRT stuff is to be very sloppy, by design, to the point where all this other stuff is CRT as well. Because that's the ballgame: to roll back the traditional stuff as well as doubleplusungood CRT. Cf. this SC decision.
-
-
Replying to @jholbo1 @Sebastian_Hols and
I agree that the anti-CRT stuff is sloppy by design. I also think some progressives respond to conservative attacks by trying to domesticate genuinely radical projects/policies (like crt, 1619, defund), and that's a mistake. ("Radical" there is a description, not a criticism.)
4 replies 0 retweets 1 like -
Replying to @JamesSurowiecki @Sebastian_Hols and
Agree with Jeet. 1619 is just not radical. A couple people were wrong about a couple things. But that's separate. CRT is a mix of sane and insane and radical and non-radical, but it contains a lot of radical and non-radical sanity.
4 replies 0 retweets 5 likes -
Replying to @jholbo1 @Sebastian_Hols and
The idea that America's true founding was not 1776, but 1619, is absolutely radical. That's the point of the project - to overturn prevailing ideas of what's essential to American history.
5 replies 1 retweet 2 likes -
Replying to @JamesSurowiecki @jholbo1 and
No, the idea that American identity dates back to earliest settlement & not 1776 can be found in fairly conservative works -- Kendall & Carey's Basic Symbols, Russell Kirk's work, Fischer's Albion's Seed. The only radicalism is foregrounding slavery.
5 replies 5 retweets 30 likes -
Replying to @HeerJeet @JamesSurowiecki and
The idea is that American identities date back to the earliest settlements. That one plural changes the whole argument.
2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes -
Replying to @Sebastian_Hols @JamesSurowiecki and
I don't find the arguments that the black struggle for freedom is central to American identity, that black people have agency, and that the black experience in USA is distinct to be that extreme. It just seems like common sense. These ideas bothering some people is more striking
1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes -
Replying to @HeerJeet @JamesSurowiecki and
You’re bundling lots of things together. Is it important, absolutely. Is it central? Depends on the state probably. It isn’t central to the Californian experience of the American identity for example, for obvious reasons. And you’re just throwing mud suggesting that I’ve said…
2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes -
Replying to @Sebastian_Hols @HeerJeet and
California's existence as a state is due to the Compromise of 1850, which was all about national deals over slavery. Almost every aspect of American formation was built on the economics and political deals driven by slavery's existence in our nation.
1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes -
Replying to @nathansnewman @HeerJeet and
He’s taking ‘identity’. You’re talking about the form it joined under. It would have joined without the slavery issue. California in with some border or other was definitely on its way to becoming part of the US.
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
Identity is surely shaped by the conditions that surrounded it being admitted. We don't know what would have happened in an alternative universe where there was no slavery. In the real world, slavery existed & pervasively shaped politics, society, and identity.
-
-
Replying to @HeerJeet @nathansnewman and
You’re super lose with weighting here. An influence is certainly correct. ‘Shaped’ has a strategically wide variety of weights. An influence (even a strong one) on politics is not the same as heavily shaped identity. But you elide all that at a high enough level of abstraction.
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes -
Replying to @Sebastian_Hols @HeerJeet and
You weirdly suggest that being admitted as a free state ‘shapes’ the identity of people in that state, but make no argument for why we shouldn’t weight the ‘free state’ part at least as highly as the ‘admitted’ part when it comes to shaping the identity of people in that state.
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
End of conversation
New conversation -
Loading seems to be taking a while.
Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information.