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HeerJeet's profile
Jeet Heer
Jeet Heer
Jeet Heer
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@HeerJeet

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Jeet HeerVerified account

@HeerJeet

1. Writer, The Nation https://www.thenation.com/authors/jeet-heer/ … 2. email: jeetheer1967 at gmail dot com 3. Twitter essayist 4. Drawn by Joe Ollmann

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Joined June 2012

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    2. Jeet Heer‏Verified account @HeerJeet 15 Feb 2019
      Replying to @OrionKidder

      Hmm. It's more explicit in the later books but the violence seems to me to undercut Paul Atreides as a hero (in one of the sequels he himself speaks of Hitler as one of his precursors from ancient human history).

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. James  🌻. GIFford  😷 💉 🩹‏ @GiffordJames 15 Feb 2019
      Replying to @HeerJeet @OrionKidder

      I’ve never quite figured out Herbert’s political angle. I’ve been tempted to read it through an anarchist/antiauthoritarian frame, but I can’t help but think it’s a fascistic aesthetic in the end & I’m just hoping for things that aren’t actually there.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. This Tweet is unavailable.
    5. Octavo‏ @DeadGodsBook 15 Feb 2019
      Replying to @OrionKidder @GiffordJames @HeerJeet

      Here's the Herbert quote which I think does a good job of clearing this up.pic.twitter.com/xGN3m3Ic1T

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    6. Octavo‏ @DeadGodsBook 15 Feb 2019
      Replying to @DeadGodsBook @OrionKidder and

      This isn't as clear in the text of the first book as it could be. You mainly have the ghost of Pardot Keynes saying "No more terrible disaster could befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a Hero. "

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    7. This Tweet is unavailable.
    8. Octavo‏ @DeadGodsBook 15 Feb 2019
      Replying to @OrionKidder @GiffordJames @HeerJeet

      I would tend to agree. It's easy to go back and see his cynicism in the first book after reading Dune Messiah, but reading DM the first time was a hell of a shock for me in high school. Paul's like Hitler? He hates democracy? Fremen hate him? WTF???

      3 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    9. Jeet Heer‏Verified account @HeerJeet 15 Feb 2019
      Replying to @DeadGodsBook @OrionKidder @GiffordJames

      Once you see that Paul is not a good guy, the story of the first book becomes not the white savior but rather the white guy who hijacks a popular revolution and destroys its democratic impetus: Paul is a kind of Lawrence of Arabia figure but in a critical way.

      2 replies 1 retweet 12 likes
    10. Noah Berlatsky‏Verified account @nberlat 15 Feb 2019
      Replying to @HeerJeet @OrionKidder @GiffordJames

      yeah...not so much in the first book. and I think it's dicey even in later ones. I mean, you think Rorschach is too indebted to pulp to escape the tropes, right? The criticism there is a lot more blatant than with Dune, imo.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Jeet Heer‏Verified account @HeerJeet 15 Feb 2019
      Replying to @nberlat @OrionKidder @GiffordJames

      I think it's fair to say that both Herbert & Moore are trying to critique the superman idea but both fall into the trap of offering genre audiences their beloved tropes.

      6:40 PM - 15 Feb 2019
      • 10 Likes
      • Bvsiliskmusic BenjaminCraft-Rendon V and Vrious Noah Berlatsky James 🌻. GIFford 😷💉🩹 Still learning Malaclypse bIm
      3 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. James  🌻. GIFford  😷 💉 🩹‏ @GiffordJames 15 Feb 2019
          Replying to @HeerJeet @nberlat @OrionKidder

          The same people who like Rorschach like V, even if they’re labelled “Villain” right up front…

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Noah Berlatsky‏Verified account @nberlat 15 Feb 2019
          Replying to @GiffordJames @HeerJeet @OrionKidder

          Yeah...see, blaming readers who notice that the characters are enthusiastically glamorized by the narrative seems wrong to me. V's a good example of how an all powerful character can't actually be effectively morally condemned in the narrative.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. Octavo‏ @DeadGodsBook 15 Feb 2019
          Replying to @HeerJeet @nberlat and

          A lot of that stems from the decision to make the superman the viewpoint character.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. James  🌻. GIFford  😷 💉 🩹‏ @GiffordJames 15 Feb 2019
          Replying to @OrionKidder @HeerJeet @nberlat

          And there’s Heinlein’s fishy approach to authority too… He’s fascinated by the fascism as much as he critiques form his own form of libertarianism, and the omnipotent Mighty Whitey is certainly there in his work. “Might” is what gets to his sense of freedom, & that’s not ok.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. End of conversation

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