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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 20

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Helen Fairgrieve

      But the same system also provided for freedom of speech. That was central to the founding of America. Democratic societies would not be best for minorities if they didn't also have liberal values which allowed them the same rights and freedoms as everyone else.https://twitter.com/helenfairgrieve/status/998281072508096512 …

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      Helen Fairgrieve @helenfairgrieve
      Replying to @HPluckrose
      i'd argue that majority opinion wins is a critical aspect of the democratic system that has yielded rights for minorities. Things are complicated and far from perfect . the system is often truly awful but-it is no coincidence that democratic societies are the best for minorities
      5 replies 1 retweet 7 likes
    2. Helen Fairgrieve‏ @helenfairgrieve May 20
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      basically I don't believe that you can have a democracy without also having traditional liberal values - the two concepts are inseparable to the point of being the same thing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 20
      Replying to @helenfairgrieve

      I agree and this is why 'the majority decides what may be said' is a problem. It might be democratic but it sure as hell isn't liberal.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Helen Fairgrieve‏ @helenfairgrieve May 20
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      somewhat apocryphal - but everyone pretty much agrees with 'you cannot shout fire in a theatre' - Where speech is restrained is open to democratic tools because otherwise only the powerful get to decide upon what is restrained. the conflict between principle and practical.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 20
      Replying to @helenfairgrieve

      That isn't the expression of an idea so isn't covered under the principle of freedom of speech. We might have a fundamental disagreement where you think that protecting certain classes of people is more important than freedom of speech and I think it is not & cld well backfire.

      12:41 PM - 20 May 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Helen Fairgrieve‏ @helenfairgrieve May 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I think the disagreement is more esoteric than that - I don't believe that hate-speech laws are good, helpful or necessary either. I just believe that (even truly awful) mistakes are a part of the system that creates freedom and that those mistakes will eventually be corrected.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 20
          Replying to @helenfairgrieve

          I haven't said anything contrary to that last sentence tho.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Helen Fairgrieve‏ @helenfairgrieve May 20
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          i'm not even sure that we are really disagreeing that much - i can't actually remember the last time I disagreed with one of your tweets or articles. My take away from this debate is that 'i seem to agree with you'. sorry if i've been argumentative or annoying.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 20
          Replying to @helenfairgrieve

          Not at all!

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        6. End of conversation

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