That was why I said 'we' about the universal liberals. I certainly don't claim not to be biased towards universal liberalism. That would make it hard to argue for. I thought that was a good attempt at steelmanning the IdPol position & their concerns abt the UniLib one. No? https://twitter.com/rgigger/status/998157270297948161 …
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Replying to @HPluckrose
I think it was a good attempt but there are some things that I would change if the goal is for the people you are describing to feel like they aren’t being mischaracterized.
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Replying to @rgigger @HPluckrose
So I am obvs biased in the other direction but the whole “Identity Politics” label feels like a smear. It feels like you are saying we want to divide the world up by race rather than simply dealing with the fact that other people already have.
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Replying to @rgigger @HPluckrose
Whereas claiming that “Universal Liberalism” can’t apply to people who think we need to talk about race seems unfair.
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Replying to @rgigger @HPluckrose
Like I don’t accept that “identity politics” is all about advocating for aggrieved minorities. “Identity politics” starts with the majority oppressing the minority based on identity. That is also identity politics.
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Replying to @rgigger @HPluckrose
Saying that the people who point this out are the ones bringing identity into it seems unfair.
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Replying to @rgigger
??? I don't know where you are getting this from. I will soon be writing an essay about this and perhaps this will clear it up. Both forms of anti-racism necessarily have to deal with racism and this requires addressing racial identity.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
Maybe I’m asking too much here or maybe I’m parsing your words too intently but here is how I see it:
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Replying to @rgigger @HPluckrose
In 9 days Vote. Them. Out. 🌊 Retweeted Helen Pluckrose
You say our approach is “focusing intensely on race”. I would say that other have chosen to focus on race and we are choosing to not pretend like they aren’t.https://twitter.com/hpluckrose/status/998130191561101312?s=21 …
In 9 days Vote. Them. Out. 🌊 added,
Helen Pluckrose @HPluckroseYep. There are two competing beliefs about what will end racism. 1) Focusing intensely on race to become alert to how racism operates on many implicit levels. 2) Treating race as irrelevant to normalise evaluating people individually & make casual racism socially unacceptable. https://twitter.com/IonaItalia/status/998068548156166144 …Show this thread2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes -
Replying to @rgigger @HPluckrose
In 9 days Vote. Them. Out. 🌊 Retweeted Helen Pluckrose
“The first way *is* identity politics”. Do you not see how that makes it sound like the identity politics starts with the aggrieved minority rather than with the majority aggressor?https://twitter.com/hpluckrose/status/998133485532516352?s=2 …
In 9 days Vote. Them. Out. 🌊 added,
Helen Pluckrose @HPluckroseThe first way is identity politics and the second way is universal liberalism. Often the difference between them comes down to beliefs for & against cultural constructivism but not this time. Both anti-racist approaches accept that racism is a cultural construct.Show this thread1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
The aggressors are not proponents of either of the two methods of anti-racism that I'm discussing! I'm sorry, I think you mean well but it is this kind of persistent point-missing and going on and on that makes me want to leave Twitter. I must mute you for my own mental health.
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