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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Quillette‏ @QuilletteM May 8

      The Illiberal Logic of Intersectionality | @xchrisgonzhttp://quillette.com/2018/05/08/illiberal-logic-intersectionality/ …

      13 replies 83 retweets 231 likes
    2. Tom Quinn‏ @doublespeak152 May 8
      Replying to @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

      This mischaracterizes the ruling. I'd never heard of this so looked it up. The court said that her being a black women didn't give her any SPECIAL standing above a person who only qualified for one protected class. She still had standingpic.twitter.com/wJGU2hoZTd

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 9
      Replying to @doublespeak152 @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

      Yes, but it didn't recognise the discrimination because it wasn't one of racism or sexism. If the company employed white women & black men, they could openly discriminate against black women (usually due to stereotypes abt aggressiveness & promiscuity) w/out any recourse.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Tom Quinn‏ @doublespeak152 May 9
      Replying to @HPluckrose @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

      Not that it matters because this isn't precedent currently, but it did recognize that there was a claim of discrimination and reviewed the claim under the statute. Negative result was on the merits of the sex discrimination claim.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Tom Quinn‏ @doublespeak152 May 9
      Replying to @doublespeak152 @HPluckrose and

      With the sex discrimination claim dismissed, the court advised the plaintiff to join with a different suit of black male GE employees for the racial discrimination claim that was ongoing.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Tom Quinn‏ @doublespeak152 May 9
      Replying to @doublespeak152 @HPluckrose and

      The rule both suits were claiming was discriminatory was a labor agreement condition in which the most junior people are fired first. Since this condition didn't explicitly target women, blacks or black women, the claims were thrown out

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 9
      Replying to @doublespeak152 @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

      You're saying there was already a way to claim discrimination as a black woman, not just as black or as woman? Crenshaw was wrong about that? Or she didn't take it to court?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Tom Quinn‏ @doublespeak152 May 9
      Replying to @HPluckrose @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

      The plaintiff in the case had 2 bites at the apple. One for sex discrimination and another for race discrimination. Discrimination against black women as a class would be both under this ruling not neither. But the labor agreement didn't say "fire black women first"

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 9
      Replying to @doublespeak152 @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

      That was what she complained about, yes. And argued to be able to complain of discrimination on the intersection. I don't know if discrim against black women was explicitly set out or just suspected to exist. Either way, there needed to be a way to complain of it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 9
      Replying to @HPluckrose @doublespeak152 and

      This is where she set it all out anyway. https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://uk.search.yahoo.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1052&context=uclf …

      2:36 PM - 9 May 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Tom Quinn‏ @doublespeak152 May 9
          Replying to @HPluckrose @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

          I get the argument she's trying to make. But this case wasn't dismissed because black women weren't able to claim discrimination, rather because there was no actual evidence of discrimination.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 9
          Replying to @doublespeak152 @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

          There was a way to claim discrimination as a black woman? Evidence of this was able to be submitted and not just for racism OR sexism? I admit. I don't know the law. Crenshaw was a lawyer tho. I hate intersectionality generally but she seemed fairly tight on gaps in the law.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Tom Quinn‏ @doublespeak152 May 9
          Replying to @HPluckrose @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

          I think the confusion here is a conflation of "racism" and "race based discrimination". Those aren't the same things. Racism might be a motive for race based discrimination, but isn't necessary for race based discrimination to occur

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Tom Quinn‏ @doublespeak152 May 9
          Replying to @doublespeak152 @HPluckrose and

          So if there's a rule that says "black women are fired first" it's both race based discrimination and sex based discrimination. Doesn't matter if the employer doesn't have a problem with black men.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 9
          Replying to @doublespeak152 @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

          But did the law allow for that? If all the black women were fired first, could a complaint of sexist or racist discrimination be made if there were plenty of white women and black men who weren't fired? I don't know and don't have time to read Crenshaw again now.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Tom Quinn‏ @doublespeak152 May 9
          Replying to @HPluckrose @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

          If there was evidence that black women were targeted as a class, yes, it would be illegal discrimination even if the motives for it weren't racism because black men kept their job or sexism because white women kept their jobs. It's still race and sex based discrimination.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 9
          Replying to @doublespeak152 @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

          You read the Crenshaw thing and the rulings saying that cases couldn't be judged like this which was later overturned and now they can?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Tom Quinn‏ @doublespeak152 May 9
          Replying to @HPluckrose @QuilletteM @xchrisgonz

          Did I read the entire 31 page document you linked? No. I can tell you in the highlighted portion she has the facts of the case wrong. Black men were also laid off and were filing suit.pic.twitter.com/3CrPLU0UP4

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 10 more replies

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