We need to be clear what is meant when someone says 'incels.' Are we talking abt individuals who get together online & plan & celebrate violence against women? If so, of course, we must regard them as dangerous ideologically-motivated criminals/potential criminals/collaborators
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"Incel", as I understand it, refers explicitly to a community of people, men specifically, who not only seem incapable of having normal relationships, but who blame their circumstances on women not giving them affection. This is a contemptible view. Affection is not owed.
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Yes, separate from communities of women who can't and blame men for it. But it slides so much. A real Motte and Bailey thing going on here. One minute, people are only targetting those who justify violence. the next it's any man who is unable to attract a girlfriend.
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You’re such a careful and considered thinker. This is why I love your account!

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I believe, personally, any *individual* who holds these ideas about being withheld sex due to forces outside their control as incredibly selfish, yet potentially misguided. A collective reasoning, on the other hand, very much deserves the backlash they receive.
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But people who don’t hold this ideologies get CALLED incels regularly, as long as they are perceived to be not having orgies everyday or something. This is a regular term of abuse on the internet.
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So unless you can police internet to stop doing this, it doesn’t make sense to assume whoever get called incel are those who subscribed to “incel” ideology. I think this is Helen’s point, about precision of meaning.
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Thank you for this thread. "Incel" is a state of being, not an ideology or identity. Some people make it their identity, because being alone in one's suffering is shit, and they want to talk to people they can relate to. And some wants someone else to blame for that suffering
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There are several steps of logical fallacies that needs to be followed, confirmed, repeated and internalized before one goes from "Matt just can't get laid" to "Likely to go on a rampage". And several compounding conditions and vulnerabilities that go unaddressed on top of that.
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This was a good read.
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AWESOME AWESOME commentary on the issue! Thank You!!
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This is a good thread.
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How about psychosis? I'd like to see a study done on the characteristics of men who are attracted to the phenomenon.
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Or just guys who can't get laid?
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