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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 4

      We need to be clear what is meant when someone says 'incels.' Are we talking abt individuals who get together online & plan & celebrate violence against women? If so, of course, we must regard them as dangerous ideologically-motivated criminals/potential criminals/collaborators

      8 replies 42 retweets 155 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 4

      Are we talking about groups of misogynists who post hateful messages about women being evil but do not plan violence? Then we should treat them with the same mixture of pity and contempt as groups of misandrists who do the same thing.

      1 reply 8 retweets 101 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 4

      Are we talking about men who have complex political beliefs about societies being gynocentric and women being shallow & only interested in certain men? Treat them with the same open-minded skepticism as those who talk about patriarchy, beauty myths, objectification & fatphobia

      1 reply 9 retweets 102 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 4

      Are we talking about all men who are involuntarily celibate? Treat them and women in the same position with sympathy and supportiveness if they seek it, with dignity & minding your own business if they don't.

      3 replies 8 retweets 114 likes
      Show this thread
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 4

      What is essential is not conflating all of these individuals into greater or lesser manifestations of the same thing as is so commonly seen now and instead saying precisely what you mean.

      11:54 AM - 4 May 2018
      • 14 Retweets
      • 150 Likes
      • Spooker Turner @SSC Finnel Demon C Carcinogent Jes Hinman Regina🎃 Ink Ognito Luiz Henrique C M_Methuselah
      9 replies 14 retweets 150 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. inanis‏ @AnHonestNobody May 4
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          "Incel", as I understand it, refers explicitly to a community of people, men specifically, who not only seem incapable of having normal relationships, but who blame their circumstances on women not giving them affection. This is a contemptible view. Affection is not owed.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 4
          Replying to @AnHonestNobody

          Yes, separate from communities of women who can't and blame men for it. But it slides so much. A real Motte and Bailey thing going on here. One minute, people are only targetting those who justify violence. the next it's any man who is unable to attract a girlfriend.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. ǝsɐɥɔ ןǝıɹqɐƃ‏ @Kodanshi May 8
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          You’re such a careful and considered thinker. This is why I love your account! ♥️

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose May 8
          Replying to @Kodanshi

          :)

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Bork Bork Bork Bork‏ @jonbmetz May 4
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          I believe, personally, any *individual* who holds these ideas about being withheld sex due to forces outside their control as incredibly selfish, yet potentially misguided. A collective reasoning, on the other hand, very much deserves the backlash they receive.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. 少年听雨歌楼上‏ @RosesofE May 4
          Replying to @jonbmetz @HPluckrose

          But people who don’t hold this ideologies get CALLED incels regularly, as long as they are perceived to be not having orgies everyday or something. This is a regular term of abuse on the internet.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. 少年听雨歌楼上‏ @RosesofE May 4
          Replying to @RosesofE @jonbmetz @HPluckrose

          So unless you can police internet to stop doing this, it doesn’t make sense to assume whoever get called incel are those who subscribed to “incel” ideology. I think this is Helen’s point, about precision of meaning.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Crimmy‏ @KamelGuru May 4
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Thank you for this thread. "Incel" is a state of being, not an ideology or identity. Some people make it their identity, because being alone in one's suffering is shit, and they want to talk to people they can relate to. And some wants someone else to blame for that suffering

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Crimmy‏ @KamelGuru May 4
          Replying to @KamelGuru @HPluckrose

          There are several steps of logical fallacies that needs to be followed, confirmed, repeated and internalized before one goes from "Matt just can't get laid" to "Likely to go on a rampage". And several compounding conditions and vulnerabilities that go unaddressed on top of that.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. jbakes25‏ @ProudOcelot May 8
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          This was a good read.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Anonomega‏ @Anonomega3 May 6
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          AWESOME AWESOME commentary on the issue! Thank You!!

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Nestor: the ghost in the machine‏ @AliasNestor1 May 5
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          This is a good thread.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Tigerlore‏ @Tigerlore88 May 5
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          How about psychosis? I'd like to see a study done on the characteristics of men who are attracted to the phenomenon.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Edwin J. Pole II‏ @ejpoleii May 4
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Or just guys who can't get laid?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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