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HPluckrose's profile
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
Helen Pluckrose
@HPluckrose

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Helen Pluckrose

@HPluckrose

Editor @AreoMagazine Secular, liberal humanist. Mother. Doglover. Writing book about epistemology & ethics on the academic left Helen.pluckrose@areomagazine.com

London.
areomagazine.com/author/hpluckr…
Joined August 2011

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    1. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 28

      Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Irene Ogrizek

      Yes. We just made that one in two talks and a podcast. But atheists would not be wrong to be say they were atheists unless they defined 'atheist' as 'someone who holds certain values that serve the same function as religion' and they are someone who does that.https://twitter.com/ireneogrizek/status/990270190150709251 …

      Helen Pluckrose added,

      Irene Ogrizek @ireneogrizek
      Replying to @HPluckrose
      There's a good argument for displacement, i.e., groups uphold certain values that serve the same function as religion. I've known a lot of atheists & I've always been surprised at how religious their arguments against a belief in God sound.I'm agnostic & have no skin in the game.
      1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
    2. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Apr 28
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Helen can you rephrase that without the double negatives? I'm honestly not following your response.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 28
      Replying to @ireneogrizek

      Atheists would still be right to say they are atheists if they are using the term in the normal way to mean that they don't believe in gods and not to mean 'someone who holds certain values that serve the same function as religion' whilst being someone who does that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 28
      Replying to @HPluckrose @ireneogrizek

      I don't stop being an atheist if I hold certain values that serve the same function as religion for religious people because 'atheist' does not mean 'one who denies that religion serves certain psychological and social needs common to wider humanity.'

      2 replies 3 retweets 12 likes
    5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 28
      Replying to @HPluckrose @ireneogrizek

      This is just yet another case of 'I can claim you're wrong about what you believe/disbelieve by defining the name for that belief/disbelief in a completely different way to how you are using it and the general consensus on the meaning of the word.' A variation on a strawman.

      1 reply 1 retweet 14 likes
    6. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Apr 28
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Yes, although experientially, I know atheists whom I don't engage with bc of their proselytizing. OTOH, for 18 mos, I worked with devout Christians on the assisted suicide issue. No attempts to convert me. Logically you're right, but real-life experiences shape opinions.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 28
      Replying to @ireneogrizek

      Which would be a point that people can try passionately to persuade people of worldviews which aren't religious. If Peterson was said to have made that point, I would agree with him. He was said to have made a different claim tho which I don't agree with.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 28
      Replying to @HPluckrose @ireneogrizek

      Disagreeing with him on one point to do with atheism and religion does not indicate that I disagree with every point ever made about atheism and religion. I genuinely just disagree with the one he (was said to have) made.

      10:12 AM - 28 Apr 2018
      • 1 Like
      • JJ
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Apr 28
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Yes, I understand. I was commenting on a phenomenon that sits uneasily--although perhaps logically--with my idea of atheism as a either a worldview (or part of 1). Atheists often believe that religious conversion practices are wrong or dangerous. That's the connection I'm making.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 28
          Replying to @ireneogrizek

          Helen Pluckrose Retweeted Helen Pluckrose

          I said this about that: https://twitter.com/HPluckrose/status/674915375616761856 … But yes, if an atheist believes that it is wrong to try to persuade other people of your own worldview & then they try to persuade other people of theirs this would be wrong. I'd disagree with them, ofc. Arguments are how we advance

          Helen Pluckrose added,

          Helen Pluckrose @HPluckrose
          Not ironic when atheists 'evangelise' (promote scepticism) coz we dont criticise Xtians for arguing their case. We criticise the case itself
          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Apr 28
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Fair enough. It's just that this thinking often comes with unhelpful insults, mostly issuing from the atheist camp, i.e., the term "god-botherer," which doesn't sound persuasive to me. BTW, I do think you're logically correct. I'm thinking of the behaviour of the atheists I know.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 28
          Replying to @ireneogrizek

          I know Irene but this bears no relation to what Peterson actually said. If he'd said 'Some atheists have shitty and inconsistent attitudes' I'd have agreed with him.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Apr 28
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Fair enough. Sorry if I strayed off topic.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 28
          Replying to @ireneogrizek

          Sorry if I was sharp. I am being descended on by dozens of people determined to miss the point.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Irene Ogrizek‏ @ireneogrizek Apr 28
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          Yes. Sorry if I caused that. It wasn't my intention. Sometimes I wish Twitter was more private.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Apr 28
          Replying to @ireneogrizek

          Not at all. Criticising Peterson tends to bring out a lot of very twisty people. (Not meaning you)

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        10. End of conversation

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